Why no MkIV replicas?
- Thread starter Bill D
- Start date
Bill - try this one
MK IV at Mecanic Import, Belgium
There have been a few of these for sale over the last year or so. I guess it would be nice to have one of each /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif?
Cheers.
Rob
MK IV at Mecanic Import, Belgium
There have been a few of these for sale over the last year or so. I guess it would be nice to have one of each /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif?
Cheers.
Rob
Ummm...because Jim won't release his molds? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Bill
The small number of potential buyers of an MK IV kit is the issue. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think
a straw poll would show the MK IV coming up short compared
to the MK I and MK II. And look how many MK I kit MAKERS
are in actual production in the US.....exactly (1)....
To be very, very blunt....the biggest obstacle as Mark
mentioned are the ($$$$) body molds. Figure $ 50k or more,
and you have to have a willing donor to let you pull a
copy off their body. That's a tall order.
Next step is to have someone develop an MK IV tube chassis.
This may or may not be difficult, depending how much
the interface points differ between the MK I and MK IV.
But that is all a matter of tube bending/welding...
not difficult...but time consuming for the first article.
You'll also have to pull a mold off an original windshield,
which isn't hard (assuming someone let's you).
You would have to suck up the cost of the initial
mold and minimum run of windshields...but not that
expensive if you know the right people.
So...the long winded answer (not surprisingly) is that
it can be done if someone comes up with the seed money,
and can sweet talk an MK IV owner into letting them splash
a body and windshield mold. Good luck!
MikeD
The small number of potential buyers of an MK IV kit is the issue. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I think
a straw poll would show the MK IV coming up short compared
to the MK I and MK II. And look how many MK I kit MAKERS
are in actual production in the US.....exactly (1)....
To be very, very blunt....the biggest obstacle as Mark
mentioned are the ($$$$) body molds. Figure $ 50k or more,
and you have to have a willing donor to let you pull a
copy off their body. That's a tall order.
Next step is to have someone develop an MK IV tube chassis.
This may or may not be difficult, depending how much
the interface points differ between the MK I and MK IV.
But that is all a matter of tube bending/welding...
not difficult...but time consuming for the first article.
You'll also have to pull a mold off an original windshield,
which isn't hard (assuming someone let's you).
You would have to suck up the cost of the initial
mold and minimum run of windshields...but not that
expensive if you know the right people.
So...the long winded answer (not surprisingly) is that
it can be done if someone comes up with the seed money,
and can sweet talk an MK IV owner into letting them splash
a body and windshield mold. Good luck!
MikeD
Ron Earp
Admin
Have to agree with Mike, the lines just aren't as pleasing as the MKII and especially the MKI. I'm sure that others don't find this to be the case but I certainly do. The MKI and MKII still have a road car flavor to them, while the MKIV has a more purpose built look that looses the charm. Of course, Jim will disagree since he uses his on the road but that is the best of the forum, different opinions for different people! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Let`s not beat about the bush, It`s a miserable looking bugger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree...I think the MkIV is absolutely gorgeous except when viewed from the rear. GT40s in general don't look as good from the rear as they do from other angles. I think the MkII is the ugly duckling of the bunch. Well, relative to the MkI anyway, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
ANother thing that would be difficult about doing a MkIV is the fact that the left side door isn't cut into the roof like the right-side door. I have a feeling it's not particularly easy getting into the left side of a MkIV. Since most cars sold in the US would be LHD, this would present a serious problem.
Let`s not beat about the bush, It`s a miserable looking bugger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree...I think the MkIV is absolutely gorgeous except when viewed from the rear. GT40s in general don't look as good from the rear as they do from other angles. I think the MkII is the ugly duckling of the bunch. Well, relative to the MkI anyway, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
ANother thing that would be difficult about doing a MkIV is the fact that the left side door isn't cut into the roof like the right-side door. I have a feeling it's not particularly easy getting into the left side of a MkIV. Since most cars sold in the US would be LHD, this would present a serious problem.
Mark !!
If I may borrow your statement,
"I disagree...I think the MkIV is absolutely gorgeous except when viewed from the rear. GT40s in general don't look as good from the rear as they do from other angles."
You know, people said the same thing about the Lola T70 having the "bread van" rearend. <font color="red"> </font> HOWEVER, I would probably say something bad about a car, that I could never pass too.
<font color="black"> </font> When you are constantly following instead of leading the back end always looks bad !!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Regards Brian
If I may borrow your statement,
"I disagree...I think the MkIV is absolutely gorgeous except when viewed from the rear. GT40s in general don't look as good from the rear as they do from other angles."
You know, people said the same thing about the Lola T70 having the "bread van" rearend. <font color="red"> </font> HOWEVER, I would probably say something bad about a car, that I could never pass too.
<font color="black"> </font> When you are constantly following instead of leading the back end always looks bad !!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Regards Brian
I agree Ron - I think the Lola is an amazing looking car from all angles. I prefer the look of the MKIII front end to the MKIIIB, but the back end really looks the part.
In the UK Derek Bell produces a T70 MKIIIB replica with MDA. Not sure how many have been built.
Derek Bell T70
Gardner Douglas, just down the road from me, produces the T70 Spyder. If anyone in the UK's interested, they're having an open day on 29 May.
T70 Spyder replica
There are certainly moulds in the USA (Marauder etc). There was also a firm in the 1980s called Can-Am Constructors in Tempe, Arizona who produced the Lola T-165, a T70 MKIII replica with updated T222 suspension etc, with Eric Broadley's agreement. They used new but original Lola chassis, shipped from Lola in the UK. They were licensed to carry the Lola name and had the correct emblems, etc. Does anyone know of any survivors?
With the moulds out there, the shape is too good not to carry on in some form, with a decent chassis/drivetrain.
Rob
In the UK Derek Bell produces a T70 MKIIIB replica with MDA. Not sure how many have been built.
Derek Bell T70
Gardner Douglas, just down the road from me, produces the T70 Spyder. If anyone in the UK's interested, they're having an open day on 29 May.
T70 Spyder replica
There are certainly moulds in the USA (Marauder etc). There was also a firm in the 1980s called Can-Am Constructors in Tempe, Arizona who produced the Lola T-165, a T70 MKIII replica with updated T222 suspension etc, with Eric Broadley's agreement. They used new but original Lola chassis, shipped from Lola in the UK. They were licensed to carry the Lola name and had the correct emblems, etc. Does anyone know of any survivors?
With the moulds out there, the shape is too good not to carry on in some form, with a decent chassis/drivetrain.
Rob
Mike D, thanks! I now know what I should charge to make a set of moulds for a T70. May I use that figure of Fifty grand as the "bench mark" for pricing? I'll cast a mould off anything that comes into my shop for fifty grand. What do you think Brian? shall I do your car? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Bill,
Thats certainly an interesting concept. As you can imagine, I am a little biased, but think the Lola T70 Mark 3b is one of the most beautiful cars ever built. Marauder, had some nice smooth body lines out of their molds. From what I understand from people that worked at Marauder, only 12 of their Lola T70's were ever built. So finding one is hard. It took me 22 years, from the last time I seen Randy Berry (owner of Marauder) to the time I found mine. And sending them money even for a brochure now days is a money pit. From what I have seen on other web sites, no one has received anything from them in several years. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif I do like your idea Bill, ( I am only about 50 grand short at the moment) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I can see in a vision a modern version of a T70. Using todays high quality fiberglass,for the body, and maybe even a high gloss finished carbon fiber dash (beautiful weave pattern for the true supercar look), properly operating gull wing doors (like Jim's Lola), add some side marker lights (small and unobtrusive) to keep the law off your butt. It is too bad that you are over 1100 miles away Bill, or I might give that some thought. I wonder if there would be a market out there for LOLA T70Mark3b bodies ??? There was a fellow on here a while back, I think he called himself Mark3b or something inquiring about that. I think I'll search for that thread later, and see if I can get any response from him. I remember that I did a little number crunching a long time ago, and that thread was in the top 4 percent of threads read. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I have to do a 12 hour shift today, but I'll dig that up and re-crunch the figures. With the popularitity of the thread, I wonder if that fellow decided to do his body thing or not. Although I can still see the windshields as a stumbling block. It would be great to find a body source here in the states. You have me thinking now Bill. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Regards Brian
Thats certainly an interesting concept. As you can imagine, I am a little biased, but think the Lola T70 Mark 3b is one of the most beautiful cars ever built. Marauder, had some nice smooth body lines out of their molds. From what I understand from people that worked at Marauder, only 12 of their Lola T70's were ever built. So finding one is hard. It took me 22 years, from the last time I seen Randy Berry (owner of Marauder) to the time I found mine. And sending them money even for a brochure now days is a money pit. From what I have seen on other web sites, no one has received anything from them in several years. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif I do like your idea Bill, ( I am only about 50 grand short at the moment) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I can see in a vision a modern version of a T70. Using todays high quality fiberglass,for the body, and maybe even a high gloss finished carbon fiber dash (beautiful weave pattern for the true supercar look), properly operating gull wing doors (like Jim's Lola), add some side marker lights (small and unobtrusive) to keep the law off your butt. It is too bad that you are over 1100 miles away Bill, or I might give that some thought. I wonder if there would be a market out there for LOLA T70Mark3b bodies ??? There was a fellow on here a while back, I think he called himself Mark3b or something inquiring about that. I think I'll search for that thread later, and see if I can get any response from him. I remember that I did a little number crunching a long time ago, and that thread was in the top 4 percent of threads read. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I have to do a 12 hour shift today, but I'll dig that up and re-crunch the figures. With the popularitity of the thread, I wonder if that fellow decided to do his body thing or not. Although I can still see the windshields as a stumbling block. It would be great to find a body source here in the states. You have me thinking now Bill. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Regards Brian
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
IMHO, the Mark IV was a better race car than the Mark II. Despite the fact that it only raced for a season, it won a fair percentage of its' outings, I believe. And the Mark IVs chassis construction was a real step forward in race car design; the Marks I & II were derived from more traditional technology, albeit they were excellent and successful competitors.
What sets the Mark I, particularly, apart from all the other GT40s is its' looks. If you had to pick the six, say, best looking racing sports cars of all time, the Mark I GT40 would be on everybody's list. (ok, my totally biased opinion). I can't speak for everyone else here, but I think the fascination with these cars is based on the reaction to its' looks, sound and performance. Even after nearly forty years, these cars still get everyone's attention because they look so wicked beautiful.
Speaking of that, the GT40 turns forty sometime soon. Any idea when the car's 'birthday' is; and how we plan to celebrate it? Seems we ought to do something.
What sets the Mark I, particularly, apart from all the other GT40s is its' looks. If you had to pick the six, say, best looking racing sports cars of all time, the Mark I GT40 would be on everybody's list. (ok, my totally biased opinion). I can't speak for everyone else here, but I think the fascination with these cars is based on the reaction to its' looks, sound and performance. Even after nearly forty years, these cars still get everyone's attention because they look so wicked beautiful.
Speaking of that, the GT40 turns forty sometime soon. Any idea when the car's 'birthday' is; and how we plan to celebrate it? Seems we ought to do something.
The MK1 and 2 have an adequate cockpit for two, but the MK IV is not really suitable for street use unless your partner is very small and pliable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif While the lack of space might not be a factor on the track, it limits sales to the truly wacko. About half the forum posters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Half? Try explaining to your friends why anyone would be willing to spend all this money and time acquiring a car which has fixed windows, you can't see out the back of, is noisy, hot, cramped, leaks in the rain, can't be seen by anyone driving an SUV, gets 13 mpg, has no luggage space, etc etc etc. In its' purest form it doesn't have a heater, A/C, or radio/CD, although fortunately most of the ones featured here have at least some of those amenities. All my friend think I'm crazy.....BUT they all want a ride in it when it's done. So I guess we're all crazy.
Hi Bill,
For my 2c worth I have to say that the MkIV, although significant by competition record, just isn't up to the eye candy level that makes a successful commercial venture (practicality aside).
However, we've all seen some pretty incredible cars at cars shows, cruise nights etc. that were built from scratch with no consideration for production. If anybody loves the MkIV that much then go for it! There's still a wealth of knowledge in the Forum willing to help out.
For my 2c worth I have to say that the MkIV, although significant by competition record, just isn't up to the eye candy level that makes a successful commercial venture (practicality aside).
However, we've all seen some pretty incredible cars at cars shows, cruise nights etc. that were built from scratch with no consideration for production. If anybody loves the MkIV that much then go for it! There's still a wealth of knowledge in the Forum willing to help out.
From a replica sales standpoint, IMHO The MK IV suffers both interior wise and exterior wise. The things that
made it the better racer (wind tunnel shaped body and
spartan interior) are aesthetic negatives.
One only has to look at the current crop of sports prototype cars to see how racing evolution has completely removed these from any semblance of a street car.
Ergo the fascination with these older, identifiable classics.
MikeD
made it the better racer (wind tunnel shaped body and
spartan interior) are aesthetic negatives.
One only has to look at the current crop of sports prototype cars to see how racing evolution has completely removed these from any semblance of a street car.
Ergo the fascination with these older, identifiable classics.
MikeD
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO, the Mark IV was a better race car than the Mark II. Despite the fact that it only raced for a season, it won a fair percentage of its' outings, I believe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Jim, you are more correct than you may be aware of: the Mk IV in fact won 100 percent of the races that it entered--Sebring '67 and Le Mans '67. A "fair percentage" indeed! Of the 5 Mk IVs actually raced (chassis J-4 through J-8; J-1 and J-2 were test mules, and I don't think J-3 made it to an actual race; I'm at the library and don't have access to my GT40 reference material so may be wrong), two finished first (J-4 at Sebring, J-5 at Le Mans), one finished 4th (J-6 at Le Mans, or maybe it was 3rd; JIM G. don't shoot me if I shorted your car a place, please!), and two DNFed. Quite a record. Would be interesting to compare this against the achievements of other racers.
IMHO, the Mark IV was a better race car than the Mark II. Despite the fact that it only raced for a season, it won a fair percentage of its' outings, I believe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Jim, you are more correct than you may be aware of: the Mk IV in fact won 100 percent of the races that it entered--Sebring '67 and Le Mans '67. A "fair percentage" indeed! Of the 5 Mk IVs actually raced (chassis J-4 through J-8; J-1 and J-2 were test mules, and I don't think J-3 made it to an actual race; I'm at the library and don't have access to my GT40 reference material so may be wrong), two finished first (J-4 at Sebring, J-5 at Le Mans), one finished 4th (J-6 at Le Mans, or maybe it was 3rd; JIM G. don't shoot me if I shorted your car a place, please!), and two DNFed. Quite a record. Would be interesting to compare this against the achievements of other racers.
A few points.
My car J6 finished 4th.
It makes a great street car. I've put over 20K street miles on it over the years. My daughter finds the passenger seat just fine. (My wife perfers her TT P Cayenne to any of my cars.) My car was the ONLY "GT40" to complete the Pebble tour without incident, the MKIII fouled up.
My car J6 finished 4th.
It makes a great street car. I've put over 20K street miles on it over the years. My daughter finds the passenger seat just fine. (My wife perfers her TT P Cayenne to any of my cars.) My car was the ONLY "GT40" to complete the Pebble tour without incident, the MKIII fouled up.
OK, I guess I have to put in my two cents. I think the MK4 is a great looking car. It has an impeccable track record and is a wonderful driving race car. There are a couple problems that have kept it in relative obscurity. The first is the fact that they each only raced ONE RACE. The MK1s raced many times and had spectacular results if only by their sheer numbers. The other problem was the fact that it became known as a GT40. It did not start out that way and had it stayed a J car and raced more it, would have differentiated itself from what is clearly one of the greatest shaped race cars ever.
Bill
PS How many would you like?
Bill
PS How many would you like?
