Superlite GTA

[Doug S.]

"One you didnt give much chance for"...what do you mean?

When we started this thread I mentioned that IMHO the engineering to allow the AWD feature of the Talon and the GS-X to be included in the finished product would probably be WAAY to intensive to be able to offer it as even an option....didn't give that option much chance....so to speak :thumbsup:

...never gave much thought to the spyder/convertible version....liked my Eclipse coupe very much!

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Christopher Lambert]

As an edit I wanted to correct myself regarding the Evo 1-3 motors:

EVO Motors: The valve covers of the EVO 1-3 motors will be a kind of titanium color. They are the same as a US 2G motor with nothing fancy. They have the smaller 2G style intake ports, a small runner intake manifold with a larger plenum and a larger throttle body than a 2G motor. Still they are hard to find. Many are from other 4G63 powered cars and can have small 13G sized turbos. They will not bolt into a 1G because there are no provisions for the front roll stopper motor mounts that bolt to the block. Everything in Japan from 94 and up has the front and rear roll stopper motor mounts on the transmission 2G Eclipse style. Many people are running around yapping about how they have an EVO motor in their car. If it bolts into a 1G, it isn't an EVO motor.

 

[Ben Whittle]

Not yet but there are plans afoot once the Apex is in production.....dont ask me for pictures...wink.

No means yes Fran, pics

 

[Christopher Lambert]

Fran,

What points on the OEM chassis do you plan to use as connection points for your tubular additions? While I agree that there are a tremendous amount of cars that use this method in the race world, I am curious how you are able to feel comfortable structurally retrofitting a car such as this. This brings out the inner engineer in me who is curious how you plan to ensure against failure as these cars will obviously be used in very high stressed environments.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

FEA is your friend, so says my inner engineer....:shy:

I have some superbly made Le Mans suspension parts in my possesion that use 8mm bolts/heim joints to attach and support the suspension to the chassis....if I showed 90% of my customers these components they would swear that they would fail within minutes but these have already survived the 24 hrs of Le Mans ...

We have also made many parts that have survived the 24 hrs of Le Mans on the Ford GT of Robertson racing and they are tiny in comparison to the parts we use on the SLC/RCR40 etc ....but almost daily I get asked if the parts we manufacture for our kits are strong enough...is a 1/2 inch grade 8 bolt really large enough to hold on an upper control arm on a 2400lb car...or a 5/8th Grade 8 for the lower arms enough.

If you saw how much FEA and CFD work we have done on the SLC and the Apex you would be stunned, I know for a fact that we have a far better understanding of the SLC race cars aero than the new Viper race team does of their car....wink.

We spend masses of time and energy working on our designs and engineering redundancy into almost every aspect of out cars...rest assured the Apex will handle anything anyone can throw at it....

Being in Detroit and having access to some much smarter guys than me ....well thats what they say anyway...pays off from time to time....:laugh:...at least I am smart enough to ask the right questions , of the right guys.

Nothing is failure free....every engineering sytem has a failure point...a mechanical fuse is necessary in every well engineered design....the Apex will eventually fail...so will a Mack truck...F1/race cars cars fail all the time...does that make them dangerous or sub par?

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Fran, I am losing sleep at night. I need a picture to get me through the weekend.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

This should satisfy both of your issues...couldn't help myself...sorry

 

[Greg Wolfe]

This should satisfy both of your problems...

As soon as I hit "send", I figured I might get a response like this...

At least I know you hear me. lol

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Christopher Lambert]

Good to hear then. At least I know you aren't blindly building these components. With your billet uprights, how long do the wheel bearings typically last? Is this the kind of car that will hold up over extended mileage? What program are you using for your FEA work?

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...is a 1/2 inch grade 8 bolt really large enough to hold on an upper control arm on a 2400lb car...

Nominal shear strength: 24,000 lb, or 10 times the weight of the entire car. Yes, I suspect so....:lipsrsealed:

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Maybe someone can help answer this question. Is it possible to buy a new instrument cluster with 0 miles to install in the Apex? It would be nice to have a freshly built 4g63 in a new Apex with a new cluster reading 0 on the odometer. Is this possible? I have been searching to no avail.

Also, would it be possible to roll back the mileage on a used cluster? I don't think that would be illegal for a new build unless you titled it as an Eclipse.

Thoughts?

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Justin]

I would leave it as is so I could title it as an Eclipse. Just my $.02.

 

[Will Campbell]

Maybe someone can help answer this question. Is it possible to buy a new instrument cluster with 0 miles to install in the Apex? It would be nice to have a freshly built 4g63 in a new Apex with a new cluster reading 0 on the odometer. Is this possible? I have been searching to no avail.

Also, would it be possible to roll back the mileage on a used cluster? I don't think that would be illegal for a new build unless you titled it as an Eclipse.

Thoughts?

Mr. Wolfe

One of the key benefits of the GTA is the ability to not have to re-title it at all- the idea is to use the existing title of the car used for the donor. If you use a Talon as a donor for example, the result is still a Talon for titling purposes. You just made a lot of changes to the car....

That means that one of the key requirements in buying a donor car is a clean title. When you buy the car, you've already done all the titling needed. You just have to finish re-building it into a GTA (which is titled as a Talon or Eclipse).

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Thanks for the help guys.

Is ANYONE going to title this car as a specialty construction?

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Bill B]

Will, although just using the donnor car title would appear to be a simple way to proceed, I think there may be problems in many cases. For example, when you go to sell the car it is possible the buyer may not be a deeply knowledgeable enthusiast and would be scared off by a title for an Eclipse or Talon that is clearly no longer an Eclipse or Talon. I would think in many cases the donnor car may actually be a "wreck" with front or rear damage that the insurance company wrote off. In that case you would have a salvage title and the states I am familiar with require an inspection (not unlike the inspection a self assembled vehicle has to go through) in order to get a new title. In this case the inspectors will clearly see that the car is no longer an Eclipse or Talon. Also, you end up with a title that says salvage or rebuilt vehicle, if somehow you can sneak it through inspection.

Are you aware of any issues with the design of the car that would prevent just going the self assembled vehicle route to begin with? I think I personally would prefer that route, although I can see where the simplicity of just using the existing title has a certain appeal. However, when you go to sell the car it might lose some of its luster.

In any case, I do like this car and am looking forward to the day when it is available to see in person. Regards, Bill

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Will, although just using the donnor car title would appear to be a simple way to proceed, I think there may be problems in many cases. For example, when you go to sell the car it is possible the buyer may not be a deeply knowledgeable enthusiast and would be scared off by a title for an Eclipse or Talon that is clearly no longer an Eclipse or Talon. I would think in many cases the donnor car may actually be a "wreck" with front or rear damage that the insurance company wrote off. In that case you would have a salvage title and the states I am familiar with require an inspection (not unlike the inspection a self assembled vehicle has to go through) in order to get a new title. In this case the inspectors will clearly see that the car is no longer an Eclipse or Talon. Also, you end up with a title that says salvage or rebuilt vehicle, if somehow you can sneak it through inspection.

Are you aware of any issues with the design of the car that would prevent just going the self assembled vehicle route to begin with? I think I personally would prefer that route, although I can see where the simplicity of just using the existing title has a certain appeal. However, when you go to sell the car it might lose some of its luster.

In any case, I do like this car and am looking forward to the day when it is available to see in person. Regards, Bill

Bill, thanks for your response. (and from a local Pittsburgh guy!)

Your concerns are very similar to mine. I want to build a 1 off custom super car and I think I want it branded that way. Not sure I want to build a $30-$40k car with an odometer reading of 187,458 and titled as an eclipse. Not that resale is the main concern, but I can't help but to think that would kill the resale value. While this may be the easier way to go, I am not sure if it is the way I want to go.

Thanks for the opinions so far though. Keep them coming, how are you guys titling yours?

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...would it be possible to roll back the mileage on a used cluster? I don't think that would be illegal for a new build unless you titled it as an Eclipse.

California vehicle code: "28051. It is unlawful for any person to disconnect, turn back, or reset the odometer of any motor vehicle with the intent to alter the number of miles indicated on the odometer gauge."

So, it's illegal. However as a practical matter the DMV provides a number of mechanisms for declaring the set back has occurred due to repair, etc., so as a practical matter you can probably get away with it as long as you don't hide it. Or put a piece of black tape over it and it won't bother you.

 

[Christopher Lambert]

Or have some fun with it and run a completely different cluster . This was one from an S2000 that I retrofit into my gsx years ago.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

The primary use of the cabinis to create an oem environment for the builder.if, in your state you can use the original title then all well and good but if not then you can use the the mao and bill of sale that we include with all our kits.
The choice is yours...the car will be the superlite apex regardless of what you choose to title it as.
Just like an ffr cobra that uses ALL. The donor parts from a mustang is an ffr roadster

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

The primary use of the cabin is to create an oem environment for the builder.if, in your state you can use the original title then all well and good but if not then you can use the the mso and bill of sale that we include with all our kits.
The choice is yours...the car will be the superlite apex regardless of what you choose to title it as.
Just like an ffr cobra that uses ALL. The donor parts from a mustang is an ffr roadster