GT40s.com Paddock Politics Thread

[Doug S.]

Same as on automatic rifles. There is no place for them in the sporting field (most hunters I know want a clean kill with just one shot, not something that would butcher up the meat).

All automatic weapons should be banned for civilian use. The 2nd amendment says that we have the right to bear arms...but it does not specify what manner of arms and they could not have possibly envisioned the advent of automatic weapons when all they knew were muzzle loaders and blunderbus's (good grief, I must have really BUTCHERED that spelling!!!!).

Al, it's an inevitability. Not only are parents nationwide tired of having their children massacred, the kids are tired of it too, and they will soon be voting age. Do you think they will want automatic weapons (and particularly assault "STYLE" weapons like have been use to kill so many of them) to be legal? There will be an uprising the likes of which we haven't seen since the peace movement in the 1960's and automatic/assault "STYLE" weapons WILL be banned.

I don't see the "weapon" police going door to door and seizing automatic weapons. I believe those who have them will be "grandfathered" in regarding ownership. What I envision is mass revolt against the NRA and their "any weapon you want" attitude and the younger generation will make sure that happens.

It's inevitable, Al...and it's the right thing to do.

[EDIT: I just realized that you said "semi-automatic"...I misread it and need to revise my response:]

I have no problem with single shot (one trigger pull for each shot) weapons. Automatic weapons are another story. I have 4 guns, all single shot, and having hunted almost all of my life at almost 70 years old I have yet to find a need for an automatic weapon. My single shot .410 does a fine job hunting pheasants and ducks...and I don't use my pump 12 gauge shotgun because of the damage to the meat (and I despise having to dig out all those pellets, anyway). The 12 gauge is reserved for geese and other high-flight targets. My .22 rifle is used only to dispatch pigeons in my garage using bird-shot (which is getting more and more difficult to find). My other gun is a .38 pistol that has been in the family since the 1880's, when my great-great grandmother used it to send a chicken thief in the hen house packing. She was a salty ol' dog! I don't shoot it at all, and won't until I have it looked at by a gunsmith to make sure it's safe to fire.

These things are dangerous, Al...they are not play toys!!!!!

Doug

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Same as on automatic rifles. There is no place for them in the sporting field (most hunters I know want a clean kill with just one shot, not something that would butcher up the meat).

All automatic weapons should be banned for civilian use. The 2nd amendment says that we have the right to bear arms...but it does not specify what manner of arms and they could not have possibly envisioned the advent of automatic weapons when all they knew were muzzle loaders and blunderbus's (good grief, I must have really BUTCHERED that spelling!!!!).

Al, it's an inevitability. Not only are parents nationwide tired of having their children massacred, the kids are tired of it too, and they will soon be voting age. Do you think they will want automatic weapons (and particularly assault "STYLE" weapons like have been use to kill so many of them) to be legal? There will be an uprising the likes of which we haven't seen since the peace movement in the 1960's and automatic/assault "STYLE" weapons WILL be banned.

I don't see the "weapon" police going door to door and seizing automatic weapons. I believe those who have them will be "grandfathered" in regarding ownership. What I envision is mass revolt against the NRA and their "any weapon you want" attitude and the younger generation will make sure that happens.

It's inevitable, Al...and it's the right thing to do.

[EDIT: I just realized that you said "semi-automatic"...I misread it and need to revise my response:]

I have no problem with single shot (one trigger pull for each shot) weapons. Automatic weapons are another story. I have 4 guns, all single shot, and having hunted almost all of my life at almost 70 years old I have yet to find a need for an automatic weapon. My single shot .410 does a fine job hunting pheasants and ducks...and I don't use my pump 12 gauge shotgun because of the damage to the meat (and I despise having to dig out all those pellets, anyway). The 12 gauge is reserved for geese and other high-flight targets. My .22 rifle is used only to dispatch pigeons in my garage using bird-shot (which is getting more and more difficult to find). My other gun is a .38 pistol that has been in the family since the 1880's, when my great-great grandmother used it to send a chicken thief in the hen house packing. She was a salty ol' dog! I don't shoot it at all, and won't until I have it looked at by a gunsmith to make sure it's safe to fire.

These things are dangerous, Al...they are not play toys!!!!!

Doug

Doug, "A right to bear arms" was not referring to hunting, it was referring to protecting ones self. A semi auto pistol is made for that purpose. Once again it's not 99.999999 of the population, its the mentally ill, criminals, terrorist, and gangs. You want to penalize the overwhelming majority for the few. While not take care of keeping weapon away from the few that use them for indiscriminate killing.

 

[Larry L.]

"The 2nd amendment says that we have the right to bear arms...but it does not specify what manner of arms and they could not have possibly envisioned the advent of automatic weapons when all they knew were muzzle loaders and blunderbus's..." (- Doug)

I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TIRED of this BOGUS "argument".

ONE MORE TIME:

The Founders purposely used the word "ARMS" instead of "blunderbuss"/ "muzzle loader"/"flintlock" in the Second Amendment because they KNEW arms would advance over the years AND THEY WANTED "THE PEOPLE' TO BE ABLE TO OWN/CARRY WHATEVER ARMS BECAME AVAILABLE DOWN THE ROAD. They didn't WANT the people's right to keep and bear restricted to the "arms" of THEIR DAY. In FACT - they clearly didn't want the people's R-I-G-H-T to keep and bear restricted AT ALL. Spin all you want, but The Founders quite CLEARLY said congress shall pass "no...no...NO LAW infringing...infringing...INFRINGING..." on the right to keep and bear...remember? What part of NO LAW is vague? What part of NO LAW is even open to "i-n-t-e-r-p-r-e-t-a-t-i-o-n"? "No law infringing" means just that. No law. Period. ("Infringe": encroach on, RESTRICT, limit, curb, check, undermine, ERODE, diminish, weaken, impair, damage, compromise.)

Applying your logic to personal transportation, today's population should be restricted to owning horses and TRAVELING by same...FORGET cars, trains, planes, powerboats, motorcycles and on and on and on. Why? Because The Founders couldn't possibly have envisioned THEM either.

Good gallopin' ever-lovin' KRYYYMUNNY, Man. Wake up and smell the flippin' coffee...


I'm now exhausted. 'Time for a VERY large cup of coffee...or two...or three.

 

[Doug S.]

Larry, Larry, Larry...

You can talk to the hand! Your tired old tirade and blind adherance to the feeble attempt of the founding fathers to keep the federal government from depriving them of the means whereby they fed their family is just as tiring to me as is my opinion to you. :dead:

Had you read my prior comments you would have seen my suggestion that you not reply because you are no more likely to change my mind than I am to change yours.

Doug

 

[Rod]

Larry, Larry, Larry...

You can talk to the hand! Your tired old tirade and blind adherance to the feeble attempt of the founding fathers to keep the federal government from depriving them of the means whereby they fed their family is just as tiring to me as is my opinion to you. :dead:

Doug

I agree Doug. We'll keep burying people, as the mass shootings will continue. As I said, we'll have to wait until the Millennials take over the country one day, until then we'll just have to wait for the Old White Men in Congress to be voted out of office, die or retire. Our generation is lost in verbiage of the 2nd Amendment and can't see/read beyond it.

 

[Rod]

How about raising the age to vote??

I also assume you've never been in the military.

Sure to #1.

Why does it matter to #2?

MUELLER! MUELLER! MUELLER! :thumbsup:

New poll out. Lincoln is the best President in US history.

Worst President is history? Easy question. The illegitimate one and our current president:

Political scientists rank Trump last, Lincoln first in greatness survey - CNNPolitics

 

[Larry L.]

Doug and Rod:

I suggest you both reread post #2383 until the inarguable truth contained therein sinks in.

You might also keep in mind there's no difference between repealing the Second Amendment and GUTTING IT via "gun CONTROL laws" & so-called "common sense gun SAFETY laws"...except for the fact the former is constitutional...and the latter is NOT.

Good luck achieving the former.



'Now on vacation again... :dozey:

 

[Rod]

I suggest you both reread post #2383 until the inarguable truth contained therein sinks in.

Yes, the "truth" according to Larry. I'm not buying what you're selling.

The NRA wants the public to get bogged down into definitions of what is or what isn't an assault weapon and what the 2nd Amendment means or what it doesn't mean. It's all a "JEDI MIND TRICK" of and by the NRA and its supporters.

And if you really cared about the Constitution so much, our illegitimate president took an oath of office to defend it and to defend our country against all enemies foreign and domestic. We were attacked by the Russians and our illegitimate president's response has been NOTHING. A dereliction of duty. He's failed to defend our country against a foreign invader and thus must be impeached. :thumbsup:

 

[Doug S.]

Doug and Rod:I suggest you both reread post #2383 until the inarguable truth contained therein sinks in.

Not gonna happen, Larry. Your insistence on adhering to the efforts of a bunch of colonists does not have any relevancy in this day and age and while reading about the founding fathers may be good entertainment, IMHO they are not relevant to today's society in this country.

...end of story...not gonna happen, don't care what they had to say because they didn't even have public education back then. What makes you think they could have envisioned the recent mass murders?

Never mind answering...you're like a scratched record...repeating the same old drivel over and over again.

Here's hoping you don't have a stroke, Larry...your manner of emphasis when responding to posts sure shows you're feeling a lot of stress. It's not worth it if you ask me...but then, you didn't, did you?

Never-the-less, I wish you only good health now and in the future.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[DaveM]

Larry, by your logic fully automatic machine guns and bazookas should be legal.

 

[Rod]

The bump stock should be banned, Al!

It should be illegal for any use other than law enforcement or military...neither of which need bumpstocks, as they have access to automatic weapons already.

It has no civilian use other than to make an already incredibly lethal weapon exponentially more lethal.

Cheers!

Doug

The illegitimate president signed a memo today to ask the DOJ to study bump stocks. Wow, we'll see where this goes.

 

[Grady]

Hi Guys
How many deaths did you have in 50 mile circle of your house for drug overdoses in the past 30 days? How many deaths from texting while driving? Driving and drinking? How many will get killed this prom season while driving and drinking. Talk that to death.
Oh, the bump stock restriction passed in the House but is held up in the Senate at present.

Raising the age. What a laugh, although it would provide a longer period to observe 'odd' behavior. I was 20 and piloted an AC with a 6 barrel 20mm cannon and carried 76 HE rockets. I compare a (18-22) self with this current 18-30 year group of this current group who aren't capable of making sound judgements until their 30. The military has the balance of the mature youth already. Maybe we need a Maturity test at age 21.
Lets face it, we are all capable of making poor life choices (schooling, marriage, jobs, drinking). That is the reason some will forever be 18 years old.

Laws don't stop people from being stupid and making poor choices. It is good parenting is where it starts. When you destroy the basic unit of a civilization, the family, the foundation crumbles. (Great Society)

And yes, I punch holes in paper at great distances. And I didn't insult anyone Keith.

 

[Doug S.]

Larry, by your logic fully automatic machine guns and bazookas should be legal.

Yes, Dave...he has said so in the past...in rather rude terms such as "...what part of "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" [completed with Larry's usual embellishments to emphasize various parts of his response] don't you understand?" I can see that he's very passionate about his beliefs and will defend his right to be that way. We all are in this thread, that's why it's one of the most visited on the website (much to Mike's dismay, I may add...I hope he gets what he wants, too).

If I had to bet on it, I'd bet Larry would say that the second ammendment would protect his right to have a military M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank. He'd say it was within his right to use it for personal protection...which is what the second amendment was designed to protect, a person's right to self defense.

I'd suggest that would be a bit OTT, though. Larry's strict adherence to the work of the Founding Fathers must be a bit of a burden, or so it seems to me...but he's entitled to his opinions and to express them on this website in this thread, at least. Thanks to Ron for ensuring that!!! :thumbsup:

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Rod]

Laws don't stop people from being stupid and making poor choices.

Then anarchy is OK with you. :laugh:

I'd suggest you google "Why do we have laws?"

Why do we have signal lights? Why not just run red lights? What's the point of stopping, if laws don't stop people from being stupid and making poor choices?

 

[Rod]

97%

"That's the percentage of people in a new Quinnipiac University national poll who say they support requiring background checks for all gun buyers."


1 number that explains the total madness of gun politics - CNNPolitics

 

[Rod]

Yea California and its 10-day waiting period! :drummer:

Supreme Court Refuses Challenge To California’s Firearm Waiting Period.
Supreme Court Refuses Challenge To California's Firearm Waiting Period | HuffPost


"The courts are continuing to recognize that states have the authority to pass reasonable public safety laws to protect their citizens from gun violence.”

 

[Steve]

Some profound misinformation above:

1. The amendments, including the 2nd, came over a decade after we declared independence and over 5 years after we won the war for independence. They didn't come from "colonists", rather, from some of the most brilliant minds of the 18th century who created the first lasting republic in the history of mankind. The wisdom of a solitary Hamilton, Jefferson, Adams, or even a Washington (who was not a cerebral intellectual per se) far exceeds the combined wisdom of this board. They understood that throughout history, governments were prone to tyranny and, especially through the instrument of a standing army, usually oppressed or violated the human rights of their people. Hence the 2nd amendment.

2. The Supreme Court case D.C. vs Heller protects the rights of an individual to possess and lawfully use a firearm unassociated with a militia. The right is not unlimited, but it does prohibit banning an entire class of weapons (handguns specifically in this case). This is the law of the land, if you don't like it that's fine, but you do need to learn to live with it. The Supreme Court is unlikely to change it anytime soon. Kennedy is 81, Ginsburg is 84 and Breyer is 79 (all liberal). All the conservative judges are under 70 so unlikely to see a change in the makeup of the court.

Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia

3. As awful as any of the deaths from school shootings or other mass killings are, the fact is they are perpetrated by individuals who are nearly all mentally ill. If they didn't have access to a gun, they'd likely use a bomb or some other means. The underlying problem is the mental illness and the breakdown of families and communities, not the presence of guns. The number of guns from 1993 to 2013 has gone up by 50% but the number of gun homicides went down by 50% during the same time frame. New York and LA (the largest cities) are at record low gun homicide rates.

4. The majority of gun deaths are suicides (21,000) to approximately 11,000 homicides. There are less then 350 deaths by any kind of a rifle, including assault rifles

5. A federal study from 2004 puts the percentage of crimes from legally bought guns at 11%, indicating (lack of) enforcement of existing laws is a major problem. Further, most experts acknowledge the ban on assault weapons from 1994 to 2004 made little difference

The Assault Weapon Myth - The New York Times


So, in short, guns are and always will be a part of American Culture. Many Americans own them and rely on them for subsistence and other legitimate legal means. Nearly all legal gun owners are responsible. If you don't like guns that's OK, but it doesn't give you the right to infringe on another American's rights and impose your values on them for your purposes. Mass killings are up, reflecting societal issues and mental illness, not a rise in gun violence/homicide. Mass killings, while horrible and very visible, kill fewer people in a given year than a Planned Parenthood clinic flameon Gun homicide has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years (although with a recent uptick in the last 2 years) and it seems contradictory to try to infringe on constitutional rights in order to correct a problem that is improving substantially(not to say we can't do a better job enforcing existing laws and tightening up loopholes). Further, if you avoid the scary neighborhoods in Chicago, Baltimore, DC, LA, Houston, the gun violence drops off dramatically.

Oh, and for those of you in CA, you too have school shootings and your gun violence rate was up last year. And, you have approximately 12% of all the gun homicides in the entire country.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I agree Doug. We'll keep burying people, as the mass shootings will continue. As I said, we'll have to wait until the Millennials take over the country one day, until then we'll just have to wait for the Old White Men in Congress to be voted out of office, die or retire. Our generation is lost in verbiage of the 2nd Amendment and can't see/read beyond it.

That was rude, you haven't buried anyone.

 

[Steve]

Millenials? Oh oh....

You've Gotta Love Millennials - Micah Tyler - YouTube

 

[Rod]

Some profound misinformation above:

1. The amendments, including the 2nd, came over a decade after we declared independence and over 5 years after we won the war for independence. They didn't come from "colonists", rather, from some of the most brilliant minds of the 18th century who created the first lasting republic in the history of mankind. The wisdom of a solitary Hamilton, Jefferson, Adams, or even a Washington (who was not a cerebral intellectual per se) far exceeds the combined wisdom of this board. They understood that throughout history, governments were prone to tyranny and, especially through the instrument of a standing army, usually oppressed or violated the human rights of their people. Hence the 2nd amendment.

2. The Supreme Court case D.C. vs Heller protects the rights of an individual to possess and lawfully use a firearm unassociated with a militia. The right is not unlimited, but it does prohibit banning an entire class of weapons (handguns specifically in this case). This is the law of the land, if you don't like it that's fine, but you do need to learn to live with it. The Supreme Court is unlikely to change it anytime soon. Kennedy is 81, Ginsburg is 84 and Breyer is 79 (all liberal). All the conservative judges are under 70 so unlikely to see a change in the makeup of the court.

Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia

3. As awful as any of the deaths from school shootings or other mass killings are, the fact is they are perpetrated by individuals who are nearly all mentally ill. If they didn't have access to a gun, they'd likely use a bomb or some other means. The underlying problem is the mental illness and the breakdown of families and communities, not the presence of guns. The number of guns from 1993 to 2013 has gone up by 50% but the number of gun homicides went down by 50% during the same time frame. New York and LA (the largest cities) are at record low gun homicide rates.

4. The majority of gun deaths are suicides (21,000) to approximately 11,000 homicides. There are less then 350 deaths by any kind of a rifle, including assault rifles

5. A federal study from 2004 puts the percentage of crimes from legally bought guns at 11%, indicating (lack of) enforcement of existing laws is a major problem. Further, most experts acknowledge the ban on assault weapons from 1994 to 2004 made little difference

The Assault Weapon Myth - The New York Times


So, in short, guns are and always will be a part of American Culture. Many Americans own them and rely on them for subsistence and other legitimate legal means. Nearly all legal gun owners are responsible. If you don't like guns that's OK, but it doesn't give you the right to infringe on another American's rights and impose your values on them for your purposes. Mass killings are up, reflecting societal issues and mental illness, not a rise in gun violence/homicide. Mass killings, while horrible and very visible, kill fewer people in a given year than a Planned Parenthood clinic flameon Gun homicide has fallen precipitously in the last 20 years (although with a recent uptick in the last 2 years) and it seems contradictory to try to infringe on constitutional rights in order to correct a problem that is improving substantially(not to say we can't do a better job enforcing existing laws and tightening up loopholes). Further, if you avoid the scary neighborhoods in Chicago, Baltimore, DC, LA, Houston, the gun violence drops off dramatically.

Oh, and for those of you in CA, you too have school shootings and your gun violence rate was up last year. And, you have approximately 12% of all the gun homicides in the entire country.

More Gun lobby “Jedi Mind Tricks.” Look over there where there are deaths too, say like abortion, which legal BTW, focus your attention there. Blame the mentally ill, but offer no health care legislation to help the mentally ill. And also cut the taxes of the rich, and then cut Medicaid and Medicare.