GT-Forte GTs40 build

[David]

I've already got s/h front hubs, steering column and rear column and will have many other s/h bits so I'd given up on registering as 'new', I think a Q for me.

I was told it was 'good' but I won't know unless I open it up, I bought a workshop manual for the 01E's and if need be the quattro boxes go for less money (but are pretty much identical apart from having the hollow shaft and centre diff) if I want spares. Plus I know someone who should be able to get me VAG stuff for a decent price.

 

[James Harvey]

It feels like a 'Q' reg sometimes gets a bit of a negative reputation. Personally, I see it as being a stamp of home build car - something to be proud of!

 

[David]

I almost feel there should be two different extra letters, a letter for 'normal' cars that have for whatever reason lost their identity and a letter for home built without the stigma.

While I have no real issue with it being a 'Q', I'd still like to register it as 'new' but for me it just adds many many 1000's to the build cost for no real gain. There is of course always the possibility that I come into extra money later in the build and can buy new gearbox, hubs, column etc. I could then re-sell them (most likely for at least what i paid) so won't have lost out anything on them and means I can get the bits in between (adapter plates, driveshafts, gear linkages etc) made up.

I suppose I should start looking at how the 01E changes gear now, I presume that bar sitting on top normally holds part of the shift mechanism?

 

[TrevS]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Q plate cars but if your trying to make a replica then a Q plate is a dead giveaway that the car isn't an original. I am going to try and get a new registration and then swap it for an older period reg.

Trev

 

[David]

My reading of the regulations is that for it to be new only one part can be 'refurbished' (eg engine) and all other parts have to be bought new from the same place (eg in your case Tornado)

Now I may be slightly wrong in that you might be able to use different sources but strictly speaking Trevor you couldn't register your car as new if you use that start switch!

This is probably something to take up on the registrations questions forum rather than here though.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Does that mean that if all your parts are original, you still get a Q plate ?

 

[David]

As I read it, yes. You could for example give an original a new chassis and it would be the same car still theoretically you could even do the whole ' original broom' trick if you only change some bits at a time. But if you were to take a load of original but secondhand GT40 bits and use them on an otherwise 'new' car it would strictly speaking be a Q. If you were to build up a new GT40 using only unused new parts then it would be 'new', if you used more than one second hand bit then its a Q.

Everything has to be new except for one 'part' (which would normally be an engine) for it to be new. Now how many people are honest I don't know, I suspect there are rather a few 'new' registered kit cars out there that don't strictly meet the rules! Lets face it, if we take Trevors start switch as an example the dvla aren't going to know its there unless he gives them a receipt for it and if all the others are for new bits then its a new car.... He could of course not even lie and buy a brand new start switch, only to replace it with the s/h one he has as soon as its registered!


See http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/in...onversion/registering-a-kit-built-vehicle.htm

Kit built cars, motorcycles and tricycles made from all new parts supplied by the manufacturer can be registered with a current registration number.

Kit built cars can also have a current registration number if you use no more than one reconditioned part. You will need to show the part used has been reconditioned to an ‘as new’ standard in line with the manufacturer’s guidelines.

So as I read it you would have to buy *everything* from whoever you got the kit from, nothing from ebay etc.

Oh and also its no longer Q its now QNI

 

[Jon Briggs]

So as I read it you would have to buy *everything* from whoever you got the kit from, nothing from ebay etc.

Not sure that's correct. As I read it you have to buy new parts from the manufacturer, Renault gear box from Renault etc.

Not many, if any, kit manufacturers supply everything needed to build a car. And in prcatice, as long as you can prove what you have purchased is new, the DVLA are usually happy. I have not heard of a car being refused a new reg because all the parts weren't purchased from the kit maker.

 

[Dave Bilyk]

A couple of 'silly' questions

I don't think there is anything wrong with Q plate cars but if your trying to make a replica then a Q plate is a dead giveaway that the car isn't an original. I am going to try and get a new registration and then swap it for an older period reg.

Can you do that or are they hell bent on keeping a Q car identified as a Q car?

How far can you take the donor car idea, for example can you use a radiator cap from a donor car and keep it's registration?

Dave

 

The best person to ask would be Mick at SGT he has got many cars through the IVA.
Brett knows a fair bit about this also
I see it as all parts must be new, my engine block is 1970's
( mexican block ) all internals new, meets 1970's immissions
When it has a new reg it can be replaced for age related if need be.

Also used parts dont always come up looking new but this in its self can add that age related look.

 

[David]

Seeing as this has got rather off topic but still of interest and looking to keep going, could a moderator move the appropriate posts to the regstration questions forum?

To answer the question though, no. There are a certain number of parts that have to be from the original car. IIRC there is a points system so various parts of the car score and you have to be over a certain points score to win, er I mean keep the registration.

As Keith says, best to ask someone who actually knows due to getting cars through it!

 

There are so many pages to the IVA regs it does my head in.
I put the very 1st GTD40 through the SVA back in about 1998-9 it failed on about 6 points which GTD at Poole did and took back the same day.It then passed.
I think that Mick @ SGT knows what the Inspector wants and gets it so before he takes it for test, then when they find something, they always do, he rectifies that and re tests it. BINGO .
I think all we can do is get it as near as we can and alter it later.
I know it's off topic and this message will self distruct in 10 seconds

 

[Jon Briggs]

Just a couple of points as I don't want to get away from David's build thread too much.

IVA has nothing to do with the registration of a car by the DVLA. The only relevance is that you need the certificate to get the car registered. Some information verified during the test is used by the DVLA, engine age, and chassis number are about the only two.

There are 3 ways to register a car. To get a new plate all parts, except one, must be new. And that exception must be reconditioned to an 'as new' standard. Most people use the engine for this part as it also has an impact on the subsequent emissions test.

The second way is an age related plate. To get this a large amount of the parts have to come from the same donor car. And you get points for each item. For example, the chassis is worth x points, the engine is worth y points etc. You need to reach a certain amount of points to get the age related plate. This plate is related to the age of the donor car. For example if the donor was a C reg, you will get a C plate.

The third way is to get a Q plate, this is for a car of indeterminate age. You can get the parts from anywhere, use any engine, any gear box, any suspension etc.

As for reg plates, if you are awarded a new or age related plate, you can swap this for a private plate, but you cannot make the car look newer than it is. If you have a Q plate then this cannot be swapped and your stuck with it.

You must also have documentary evidence to back up all your claims, and the DVLA will inspect your car before the reg is awarded, especially if you want a new reg.

 

[TrevS]

My reading of the regulations is that for it to be new only one part can be 'refurbished' (eg engine) and all other parts have to be bought new from the same place (eg in your case Tornado)

Now I may be slightly wrong in that you might be able to use different sources but strictly speaking Trevor you couldn't register your car as new if you use that start switch!

This is probably something to take up on the registrations questions forum rather than here though.

Correct David, I won't be fitting my starter switch, spitfire inspection lamp or Lucas rear view mirror until after the IVA, so my car will only have 1 used part when it goes for registration

Trev

 

Thats the way I see it, well explained.

 

[David]

Another two panels done

I decided to not bother (yet) to cut the curve for the sills but rather to leave it rough and do it when I fit them. Hence its square and rather oversize! Its also upside down from my original intent, you can just see the remnants of the curve I drew the wrong way round!

Started to have a think about the gearchange now I've got a gearbox, I was planning on having a rod-shift but now having an 01E sat in front of me I'm beginning to question that. Has anyone got a RHD RH shift rod change working on an 01E/01X (or similar) *without* modifying the gearbox (I've seen at least one where the shift 'rod' has been extended out of the RHS of the cases)?

My first thoughts were to run a large bore 1/2 tube from one side to the other with an bearing off the shift end-cap, then I looked at it and realised its not even parallel to the horizontal, it runs at an angle so the tube would need to be silly large dia to clear.

 

[David]

I got through the 01E service manual through this morning, just out of interest for anyone else looking for the information:

01E DQS Manufactured 04/01-01/02
01E ELQ Manufactured 04/01-01/02
01E FRF Manufactured 01/02-

Gearbox ratios (DQS/ELQ/FRF all the same)
Final 31:8 = 3.875
1st: 28:8 = 3.5
2nd: 34:18 = 1.889
3rd: 32:26 = 1.231
4th: 27:31 = 0.871
5th: 26:39 = 0.667
6th: 23:41 = 0.561
Rev: 38:11 = 3.455

So assuming an engine with a redline at 6500 running 17inch 245/40's I make that roughly the following top speeds in each gear
km/h 48.2 89.2 136.9 193.5 252.8 300.4
mph 30.1 55.8 85.6 120.9 158.0 187.8

Cruising at 70mph in 6th would be about 2500rpm

Other information of note, the clutch is 228mm and its fitted with 130mm flanges, oil used is Gear Oil 052 911 A SAE 75W90 (synthetic). Reverse is left and forwards.

 

[Jon Briggs]

David,
I know some people fit a reinforcing plate in this gear box to cope with the torque from a V8. I dont know what type of engine you are planning to fit, but it may be worth while.

I managed to find a copy of the instructions to do the job if your interested.

 

[David]

Interesting....

... But those instructions refer to the 016, I was under the impression (possibly mistakenly) that the 01E didn't need reinforcing.

It's got to be pretty beefy, the original 2.5TDI A4 engine while only ~150 PS (110 kW; 148 bhp) is 310 N·m (229 ft·lbf) (although the manual states the Superb is 114 kW) and its torque that breaks engines rather than power!

I believe the 01E is rated for 450Nm (with reports of people putting in down 550Nm) but that may be for the 4wd version and talk of it being good for "100 more turbo HP than the 016"

The engines I have on my ebay shopping list are 353 N·m (260 ft·lbf), 400 N·m (295 lb·ft)) or 430 N·m (317 ft·lbf). The Audi 4.2 V8 certainly has been in front of the 01E (admittedly in 4wd) in at least the S6 if not others. I'm not expecting to have to beef it up.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

The Audi 4.2 V8 certainly has been in front of the 01E (admittedly in 4wd) in at least the S6 if not others. I'm not expecting to have to beef it up.

That engine has stood in front of an 01X, which is meant to be not as strong, see here: 4.2 V8 ABZ conversion of Lotus Esprit :: motorgeek.com

Andy Hills, who used to be on here was the guy that did it.