The Price Difference is Shrinking
- Thread starter guitaraholic
- Start date
Not to sound sexist, but the GTM is like a butterface,,,, good from far but far from good. The GTM does look better in person, just as the SL-C, it does. I saw Ironman's about 2 years ago. But when I got up close to it, some things looked cheap, and he even said it required $20k in body work and paint to get it to look right. He's had it for 3-4 years now,, and still working out the bugs.
Agreed.
I've owned both, and moving my GTM at a loss to get into a SLC was the right decision for me, even reflecting back after 2 years. 1000% right decision.
The SLC is visually assaulting in the flesh. The jewel like bones live up to the hype even after owning it for 2 years. I never look at it like an old wife where the flaws start to shine brighter and annoy me (just an analogy, I'm not talking about my wife-
). It's still a supermodel to me after all this time. :thumbsup:That said, there are some GTM builds that have raised the bar for kit car builds. I respect the sheer will, blood, sweat and tears of the GTM owner builders. I enjoy celebrating their builds and giving them the props they deserve even though it's a different kit.
Being an owner builder is the common bond we all share and can relate to.
I was already set on a GTM build, but I (and just my personal opinion) can't get over the "American muscle" look of the GTM. Anyway, with all of that I still decided to build one out of the lack of better alternatives. But then when getting ready to place the order for it and already filling the order form, I decided to do a last search on kit cars to see what was out there, and WOAAAA I saw the SL-C and its chassis (I think that is what people means with "love at first sight"), so SL-C for me now
Technically its not ..its unbuilt but not actually new....as Dave states its 5 years old.
There's a kerfuffle today over on ffcars where a newby asked The Question That Cannot Be Asked over there, namely which car is less expensive to build, the SLC or the GTM.
While he got slagged over there, and arrows were thrown, I was thinking about the topic and came up with a small spreadsheet.
The point wasn't to "prove" anything, but to put some realistic build costs on paper so people could compare things.
I tried to compare new-to-new, as I expect that most people really don't want to invest so much time, resource and effort into a car with used parts (though I know that some people find cheapness an attribute, and the GTM seems to attract more of that crowd). And while people could argue that used parts are a less expensive way to build a car, I don't think many people would accept them on a new car they bought at a dealer, so why would they be acceptable in a new car you built?
I left off the cost of interior work, as that can range from raw and basic to really high end, though I do believe that it is ultimately much less expensive to get to a high level with the SLC than the GTM.
I also left off the subjective differences, like the fact that the two cars don't have "equal" chassis designs, and styling (for obvious reasons), but tried to account for some of the differences in how the kits are provisioned.
I also didn't account for the genuine race history on the SLC (as opposed to the "GTM-R" which is so modified in the chassis as to be a different car -it's a center-seat, center-steer car that only resembles the original chassis from a distance), though the relative speed shown by the one time a GTM actually raced an SLC (last years 25 Hours of Thunderhill, where the GTM finished 51 laps adrift of the SLC) was interesting and informative.
I also left off some objective differences, like the better brakes on the SLC, generally better quality in the SLC-provided parts (e.g., fuel tanks that don't leak and need constant fiddling, better quality shocks, etc.)
So, what does the rest of the forum think? Did I forget anything? Are the numbers wonky?
Inquiring minds want to know!
The link: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9gF13SP8UtzcmI5TkZCdUhvRlE/edit
While he got slagged over there, and arrows were thrown, I was thinking about the topic and came up with a small spreadsheet.
The point wasn't to "prove" anything, but to put some realistic build costs on paper so people could compare things.
I tried to compare new-to-new, as I expect that most people really don't want to invest so much time, resource and effort into a car with used parts (though I know that some people find cheapness an attribute, and the GTM seems to attract more of that crowd). And while people could argue that used parts are a less expensive way to build a car, I don't think many people would accept them on a new car they bought at a dealer, so why would they be acceptable in a new car you built?
I left off the cost of interior work, as that can range from raw and basic to really high end, though I do believe that it is ultimately much less expensive to get to a high level with the SLC than the GTM.
I also left off the subjective differences, like the fact that the two cars don't have "equal" chassis designs, and styling (for obvious reasons), but tried to account for some of the differences in how the kits are provisioned.
I also didn't account for the genuine race history on the SLC (as opposed to the "GTM-R" which is so modified in the chassis as to be a different car -it's a center-seat, center-steer car that only resembles the original chassis from a distance), though the relative speed shown by the one time a GTM actually raced an SLC (last years 25 Hours of Thunderhill, where the GTM finished 51 laps adrift of the SLC) was interesting and informative.
I also left off some objective differences, like the better brakes on the SLC, generally better quality in the SLC-provided parts (e.g., fuel tanks that don't leak and need constant fiddling, better quality shocks, etc.)
So, what does the rest of the forum think? Did I forget anything? Are the numbers wonky?
Inquiring minds want to know!
The link: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9gF13SP8UtzcmI5TkZCdUhvRlE/edit
"You need permission to access this item."
The argument's never made much sense to me because, if you take the kits ~as each manufacturer provides~, the SLC will be more expensive. You need to buy (and would probably buy the same parts for either build) fuel, electrical, drivetrain, etc... so that cost is a wash between the two. As soon as you start deviating from the manufacturer's spec (e.g., let's try to wedge lambo doors on a gtm, let's try to develop custom billet control arms for the gtm, etc...), you throw everything out the window and costs multiply exponentially. The end effect seems pretty straight forward - you want better parts, quality and r&d you pay more. You want to recycle used parts and do sketchy things like have leaking gas tanks, you pay less.
In terms of costs ~I've~ spent on my builds (I don't understand why people are so secretive - when I've asked others who much they're put into their hobby they almost always ho and hum and never answer), for my 917 I'm keeping track of my expenses (down to the penny) - with final payment to Fran, shipping and getting my friend to build an exhaust for it, I'm going to come in at ~110-115 (no paint). I kept track of most, but not all, my expenses with my SLC and I came in around ~105 (no paint), but that also includes getting screwed on my original engine, so if I back the money I lost from that deal out of the equation as well as the useless parts I bought (e.g., carb) and re-sold along the way, I'm around 95ish. For reference, I built my FFR 65 cobra for ~80k (inc. paint), but I threw out all the FFR parts basically and did everything custom (billet control arms, 5 link, supersnake hood, etc... etc.... at the end the only FFR parts were the rear view mirror, the body minus the hood, the chassis, and the roll bars)
Summary - I <3 my SLC
Should be visible now to everyone. 
I have built a GTM and have about $65K in parts in the car. I have a SLC on order that should arrive in a few weeks. The SLC will cost a little more because of the new engine and Ricardo transaxle. The biggest difference in cost (time plus labor) between the two cars is the labor to build the car. The GTM requires several thousand hours to build correctly. Redesigning and modifying parts to fit requires a tremendous amount of time. The body work is a nightmare. If anyone wants a GTM, I have a very nice one for sale.
That's the major cost difference, and something that, for me, is the nail in the coffin for the GTM (as I'm rubbish at bodywork). To me, the SLC is worth more because it's a more modern chassis.
Me too. That labour rate seems too low though. Adding the $1590 that Fran charges to align and fit the body might be fairer, given the $12k of bodywork on the GTM side that might be seen as alignment.John Ross said:
Thanks for putting this together - it's quite informative. I never did seriously consider a GTM - the bodywork issues made it a non-starter for me.P-nut said:
Without having actually built one, the numbers look fair to within a few thousand. Even if you could do everything yourself, placing no value on your time, the (like for like) kit price difference of <$3k leaves no doubt (in my mind) as to which is better value.
Yes, or at least wanting to be one :sad:. If you enjoy the build and / or driving it, it was a good choice IMO. These cars add some much needed character to the roadsStage7 said:
.This should make you feel a little better about the RCR LMP...
2002 Cadillac LMP Spec Sheet
P.S. You do get a set of spares!
2002 Cadillac LMP Spec Sheet
P.S. You do get a set of spares!
