A co-worker of mine was telling me about this stuff called POR 15, it's an epoxy type coating, and is hard as a rock. In fact, only disadvantage is, that it's not very UV resistant, but even that can be fixed with some coating over it. You can get it both flat and glossy. He does his engine bays with it.
Anodized Chassis
- Thread starter TheJimer
- Start date
Hello to all
I just finished to read all this thread and had so many smiles thanks to to Fran and others humoristic replies ! LOL what a nice minutes !!
Well more seriously ; I build long time ago ( 1972 ) for Le mans 1973 one of the first french sport 2 liter car with an aluminium riveted tub and after using it for 2 years she have ben sold and sold andsold many times to many owners using her in hill championship ( imagine there in France rain and bad weatherin the fields when using ), then for al most 15 years have stocked in an open barnand finally retrieved by driver collector posting some pics of the tub asking what car it was because he decied ti rebuilt her and have agin fun in historic Le Mans race !!!!!
If you watch all aluminium panels they are just little matt , only to be bright polished et hop voila race again 40 years after ( so don't be afraid with your thick alu tub)!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SLC tub are a piece of art about welding !!!!! from pics I always watch on all
built threads I follow I am in love with all these superb alu welds !!!! Hey guys
you have to be proud to show these, they are last prove in our modern epoca of what can do real shumakers and welders
Painting this or whatelse treatment will "unature" all these hours of carefully assembling and welding aluminium !!
Just watch in Porsche official museum and in an US other Porsche museum alumium bare welded frames of 917 and 908 they are absoluty fantastic and now this people is proud to exhibit these.
Coating and SLC frame is shadowing a great part of RCR menwork and this is not a big thanks to this team offering your US builders the possibility to own such Dreamcars able to be road driven!!!!!!!!!
I really dreamed to built one as it is but halas our poor Road homologations regulations are so far to allow such a project:embarassed:
Good day to all of you SLC builders and keep on posting your so nice builts
I just finished to read all this thread and had so many smiles thanks to to Fran and others humoristic replies ! LOL what a nice minutes !!
Well more seriously ; I build long time ago ( 1972 ) for Le mans 1973 one of the first french sport 2 liter car with an aluminium riveted tub and after using it for 2 years she have ben sold and sold andsold many times to many owners using her in hill championship ( imagine there in France rain and bad weatherin the fields when using ), then for al most 15 years have stocked in an open barnand finally retrieved by driver collector posting some pics of the tub asking what car it was because he decied ti rebuilt her and have agin fun in historic Le Mans race !!!!!
If you watch all aluminium panels they are just little matt , only to be bright polished et hop voila race again 40 years after ( so don't be afraid with your thick alu tub)!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SLC tub are a piece of art about welding !!!!! from pics I always watch on all
built threads I follow I am in love with all these superb alu welds !!!! Hey guys
you have to be proud to show these, they are last prove in our modern epoca of what can do real shumakers and welders
Painting this or whatelse treatment will "unature" all these hours of carefully assembling and welding aluminium !!
Just watch in Porsche official museum and in an US other Porsche museum alumium bare welded frames of 917 and 908 they are absoluty fantastic and now this people is proud to exhibit these.
Coating and SLC frame is shadowing a great part of RCR menwork and this is not a big thanks to this team offering your US builders the possibility to own such Dreamcars able to be road driven!!!!!!!!!
I really dreamed to built one as it is but halas our poor Road homologations regulations are so far to allow such a project:embarassed:
Good day to all of you SLC builders and keep on posting your so nice builts
I do not know if you are being sarcastic but corrosion in aluminum aircraft is a very real and well know fact. A fact that has cost numerous people there lives in many situations. There are numerous types of corrosion, molds and fungi that can attack Aluminum.
Now we are talking planes here; planes that are very commonly only operated in clean, dirt and salt free environments. Environments that are way cleaner then the harsh road world.
But that being said I do not see a SLC chassis tearing apart in the near future due to major corrosion.
What I do see happening is bolt hole threads tearing out, pitting, Galvanic corrosion around fasteners. Etc Etc Etc Etc.........
I have first hand proof of this happening with the parts of 4 separate twin otter aircraft piled up outside my hanger. Parts made out of 6061 that are now just waiting to go get melted down and turned into a something else.
Yup there is a reason you have hourly, yearly airframe inspections on what ever aluminum spam can you are flying you and your family around in....
Quote
Aircraft Safety Bureau"Aircraft corrosion presents a constant threat to the structural integrity of aircraft and aircraft parts."
Aircraft Corrosion - How To Prevent It
More info!!!!
Corrosion Control For Aircraft
I could keep listing stuff on aluminum corrosion for days and still not cover it all.
What Fran has done with the SLC is build in enough Excess material to cope with so many other factors other than corrosion that the likelihood of corrosion being anything more then a pain in the butt is just so very unlikely.
As per the Aluminum boats, I have a boat shop that makes some real cool jet boats right close to me. I go check stuff out there from time to time and they usually have some form of corrosion repair in there every time I go. But on that note they usually have 10 times the amount of bent race boats to fix.
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i was reading the how to prevent a/c corrosion because i was interested, and they refer in most all cases to water being the main culprit, salt, mud, battery acid, and didn't see anything pertaining to a well kept race car. they even referred to coatings covering up or masking problems.
Yeah, certain coatings are a not great for letting one know what is going on. Water is not so bad on its own but add in soils, exaust compounds and ____.
The best defence you can use is keep it clean and let it dry after you get it wet or wash it.
Also often when I screw dis-simular metals into aluminum I usually like to use soft thread lock or some other thread compound to isolate the two materials.
But seriously the biggest worry you have with something as robust as the SLC chassis is topical stuff that will take away from the beauty of your loved one.
Most aircraft use an electrostatically applied Zync Chromate primer on the interior of the skins / wings as I recall...
The only thing I am even mildy concerned about is the screws or bolts that I may have forgetten to put anti-seize on that thread into the alloy structure itself.. The dissimilar metal and humidity alone may cause some reaction that would potentially bind up some threads..
Note that I am not going to lose even so much as one-wink of sleep over it though..
The only thing I am even mildy concerned about is the screws or bolts that I may have forgetten to put anti-seize on that thread into the alloy structure itself.. The dissimilar metal and humidity alone may cause some reaction that would potentially bind up some threads..
Note that I am not going to lose even so much as one-wink of sleep over it though..
Metallurgist? I spent a few years in a research lab doing metal corrosion investigation, and while you're definitely right about the grain structure of annealed metals, I seriously doubt its a major factor in the production of the AL used in the chassis materials. To really screw things up you'd probably have to take it from just under the melting point and then quench it.
Chemical interactions and environmental factors are going to contribute to the aluminum deteriorating any faster than steel. If you want to last longer than just about anything, gold is the only way :lipsrsealed:... and that's not an option. If anything, you'll create a dendritic structure that is copper/zinc rich and/or it will corrode along the grain boundaries.
If you want it to last, park the vehicle in a temperature and humidity controlled garage, and never drive it in the rain.
:Attachments
Wow...my brain hurts...but thanks...
In the end just drive the damn thing and if you live longer than it does think yourself lucky....
In the end just drive the damn thing and if you live longer than it does think yourself lucky....
if you have ever worked on c130's the biggest cause of corrosion by the ramp area is army types relieving themselves before a static line jump.
So don't pee in the car.
Maurice
So don't pee in the car.
Maurice
Metallurgist? I spent a few years in a research lab doing metal corrosion investigation, and while you're definitely right about the grain structure of annealed metals, I seriously doubt its a major factor in the production of the AL used in the chassis materials. To really screw things up you'd probably have to take it from just under the melting point and then quench it.
Chemical interactions and environmental factors are going to contribute to the aluminum deteriorating any faster than steel. If you want to last longer than just about anything, gold is the only way :lipsrsealed:... and that's not an option. If anything, you'll create a dendritic structure that is copper/zinc rich and/or it will corrode along the grain boundaries.
If you want it to last, park the vehicle in a temperature and humidity controlled garage, and never drive it in the rain.
ME actually. My graduate thesis research focused on studying aluminum deformation under incipient melt conditions. I learned quite a bit, still no expert by any means.
The aging time and temperature to achieve a certain temper are pretty specific with aluminum alloys. For example, the ASTM aging temperature for 6061-T6 is 350F and the metal is held at that temperature for 8 hours and allowed to cool. This is in range of the temperatures used in powder coating. So, if you were to expose the metal to a higher temperature than 350F for an extended period of time, you could potentially overage it and weaken it. That is why it is important that the person you have doing the powder coating knows what they're doing. That's the only point I was trying to make. Aluminum should not be treated like steel. I'm sure many other people here have read the threads on other car forums pertaining to improperly powder coated wheels failing at auto-x events and track days.
Personally I wouldn't worry about corrosion with the chassis as supplied as long as you're not exposing it to anything caustic. I was just trying to advise others to use caution when dealing with aluminum.
If you've worked on restoring aluminum bodied sports cars then you're well aware that aluminum oxidizes just the same at steal does in the practical world.
On the upside, aluminum tends to develop a very thin layer of oxide on the surface where it is exposed bare, which tends to lessen further oxidation deeper into the surface. Of course, where water is present...facilitating the oxidation process...or where there is a crack or other surface imperfection or there's the presence of other corrosive elements...this surface boundary layer struggles to do it's job and then deeper oxidation can set in. Just like anything mechanical, the durability of it is highly linked to the environment in which it exists....and anything left out in a field for 10 years is going to break down over time...other than plutonium244 with a half life of 80 million years give or take a couple million.....
Aluminum is a great material, particularly for performance applications where weight matters. There's a reason the aerospace industry has used it extensively since wood and fabric, and still does for the most part.
A wipe down with WD40 seems to do a lot to keep bare aluminum looking good for years.
On the upside, aluminum tends to develop a very thin layer of oxide on the surface where it is exposed bare, which tends to lessen further oxidation deeper into the surface. Of course, where water is present...facilitating the oxidation process...or where there is a crack or other surface imperfection or there's the presence of other corrosive elements...this surface boundary layer struggles to do it's job and then deeper oxidation can set in. Just like anything mechanical, the durability of it is highly linked to the environment in which it exists....and anything left out in a field for 10 years is going to break down over time...other than plutonium244 with a half life of 80 million years give or take a couple million.....
Aluminum is a great material, particularly for performance applications where weight matters. There's a reason the aerospace industry has used it extensively since wood and fabric, and still does for the most part.
A wipe down with WD40 seems to do a lot to keep bare aluminum looking good for years.
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The sheer cost of building one of these cars would compel me to do everything I could to preserve it and my investment. Beyond that, I honestly believe that a few of these cars might become collectible in their own right especialy ones that have been built particularly well by people that gain notariety for building incredible cars. One of the six Daytona coupes was doing burnouts in LA driven by Phil Spector. It was considered to be worthless at the time. Who knew?
Fran, stand up and take a bow, I think your cars will be with us for a while.
Fran, stand up and take a bow, I think your cars will be with us for a while.
Heh, I was trying to agree to a certain extent, but I've actually never heard of PC'ed wheels failing like that. I was more of an ancient alloys investigator. Obviously Al alloys weren't used (at all really) until around the Industrial Revolution so my experience is relatively limited.
The method/speed of cooling dictates the grain structure as much as the amount of time spent at a given temperature. What probably happened with the wheels is that they were raised to temperature, coated, then immediately let out to ambient temperature to dry... thus "erasing" the properties which were produced for an application such as wheels.
In fact, if the wheels were set out and allowed to (relatively) rapidly cool, they would be much more brittle and prone to cracking under impact. With the SLC chassis, almost certainly the welding seams would be the weakest in terms of grain structure because they undergo the same effects, but seeing as the method of construction is race proven and pretty much beyond reproach, there's little concern there.
Well Trivia for you... WD 40 is not WD40 any more. It is actually several versions past that. The WD 40 of several years ago was flammable, and a bad oxidizer of aluminum. In fact it was not good to spray it on any riveted together aluminum panels because it would wick between panels; if the panels were not treated or panted prior to being assembled it would act like an acid that was left to there destroy.
If you happen to have a much older can of WD40 kicking around test it out. Spray some on a white cloth or almost any clean cloth and wipe down some aluminum. The cloth will be black in an instant as it removes the oxide layer. Try the same with some new stuff and it will only kinda, sorta but not really polish up the Al.
Kyle,
While I cannot vouch for the formulation of WD40 not having changed or having changed, I can tell you that the propellant fpr WD40 and many others has changed from Propane to an inert gas like Nitrogen. Also, WD40 is a great starting fluid for diesel engines rather than the far more destructive starting fluid ether.
I have used it for years on both aluminum and steel and never noted any corrosive properties at all.
While I cannot vouch for the formulation of WD40 not having changed or having changed, I can tell you that the propellant fpr WD40 and many others has changed from Propane to an inert gas like Nitrogen. Also, WD40 is a great starting fluid for diesel engines rather than the far more destructive starting fluid ether.
I have used it for years on both aluminum and steel and never noted any corrosive properties at all.
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+1 I was waiting on someone to mention Zinc Chromate. This is what we use every day at the shop. When prepping aluminum we use a product called "alumiprep" this thoroughly cleans the surface, after this process "alodine" is applied to etch the material. The final process is Zinc Chromate primer for repaired areas. Easy process....
The process I highlighted is really reserved for "repairs". If you have fresh clean aluminum a simple preventative spray will do.
I happen to really like a product called ACF50. I plan to use this as a top coating over the aluminum. It creeps into hard to reach areas and is super easy to apply.
The process I highlighted is really reserved for "repairs". If you have fresh clean aluminum a simple preventative spray will do.
I happen to really like a product called ACF50. I plan to use this as a top coating over the aluminum. It creeps into hard to reach areas and is super easy to apply.
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