Porsche 917 - am I crazy?

[Keith]

Hey Trev, I've been thinking (always a dangerous pastime) and I reckon Graham has nailed it when describing the pure use-ability of this model (or lack of). To me, the motor is paramount and the Bailey with the V10 Audi is the bees mate, failing that the Porsche flat 6 N/A. Don't even think about an LS motor - it would be a travesty. I would like to suggest an alternative choice of car that no one seems to be building at the moment, is also quite rare, and will give you some brilliant track days.

I am thinking a Lola T70 MKIIIB an equally iconic and very quick motor car. Better yet, the motor is easily sourced, and as much horsepower as you could handle for under £5,000. You might think that there isn't a ton of difference between a GT40 and a Lola T70 but there is. The Lola is significantly quicker. Better yet, you could have The Can Am spider option, and if you got bored, swap the body out for the coupe.

Just a thought to give you your racing jollies and keep your finances sane. I would love a 917 too, but given the difficulties and cost, I would almost certainly plump for the T70, and the RCR mono is, for me, a no brainer.

No connection with RCR obviously, but the mono idea is intuitive.

 

[TrevS]

Hey Trev, I've been thinking (always a dangerous pastime) and I reckon Graham has nailed it when describing the pure use-ability of this model (or lack of). To me, the motor is paramount and the Bailey with the V10 Audi is the bees mate, failing that the Porsche flat 6 N/A. Don't even think about an LS motor - it would be a travesty. I would like to suggest an alternative choice of car that no one seems to be building at the moment, is also quite rare, and will give you some brilliant track days.

I am thinking a Lola T70 MKIIIB an equally iconic and very quick motor car. Better yet, the motor is easily sourced, and as much horsepower as you could handle for under £5,000. You might think that there isn't a ton of difference between a GT40 and a Lola T70 but there is. The Lola is significantly quicker. Better yet, you could have The Can Am spider option, and if you got bored, swap the body out for the coupe.

Just a thought to give you your racing jollies and keep your finances sane. I would love a 917 too, but given the difficulties and cost, I would almost certainly plump for the T70, and the RCR mono is, for me, a no brainer.

No connection with RCR obviously, but the mono idea is intuitive.

The only other cars I've thought about as an alternative to the 917 would possibly be P4 replica. I love the Lola T70 Mk3B's too, often see them at historic events normally screaming past the GT40's but not sure I've seen any top notch replicas. The other idea I toyed with was to sell my GT40 build and try to scrape together enough cash to buy a Superformance MK1 GT40 but seems the prices of these keep going up.

 

[colin artus]

Come on, the Can Am 917s had that turbo 1100hp engine with horrific lag - and you're worrying about 700hp?

 

[Kevin L]

Come on, the Can Am 917s had that turbo 1100hp engine with horrific lag - and you're worrying about 700hp?

.. and professional drivers? No, that probably doesn't really make a difference.

 

[Pat]

Why not consider a 962 vs 917? Seems there is more bulkhead room for safety and they certainly are historic cars.

 

[Chris Huck]

Why not consider a 962 vs 917? Seems there is more bulkhead room for safety and they certainly are historic cars.

Stefan Bellof's wreck of a 962 shows what could happen. I think whatever car you make, build, drive, there is always a risk, even modern road cars.
At the end of the day, whatever HP you have, it'll only go as fast as you make it!
Looking around the paddock at Castle Coombe at the special GT's, you'd be amazed at the cars raced, I wouldn't fancy a "prang" in any of them, to be honest, there is some pretty quick stuff there too.
I had the fortune to look around a Lola with a Hart 420 motor in it, owned by a friend who has just sold it to a chap in Auz, there was nothing to it, like a sardine can, I guess it's all about risk and what you're happy with.
Also I would add that hp is one thing but using it all is another, a well set up car well driven will do quicker lap times than a "point and squirt" merchant with double the hp. Go to any track day with a stop watch, you'll be amazed

 

[Rick S.]

I don't know....but call me crazy...

 

[Michel]

Why not consider a 962 vs 917? Seems there is more bulkhead room for safety and they certainly are historic cars.

Do you know many suppliers for reasonable price for a962 Kit ??
Besides one canadian guy selling only panels and templates to built the monocoque , and another company selling historics supply parts at ' historic" prices don't know who is able to sell an fully organised and complete kit of such car as we are talking about the 917
( read somewhere Fran from RCR can built rolling chassis as he already have that nice tub welding tecnology which match nicely to the riveted 962 tub and molds of some version ???)

 

[Marcel B.]

A big difference between the other 917's and the one Chris (MrNoo) and I ( Faroux Sports Cars) are building is that we have room for 2 seats.
Howard mentioned that he didn't want to drive alone.
We made the side pods a little smaller, so the is more room in the interior.
Here is a picture of our seats in the chassis.

A we use the Boxster or 911 engine we have plenty of room where a 12 cylinder ones was.
We decided not to put the fuel tanks in the sills as the originals have, but behind the rear bulkhead.
We put in some extra tubes to separate the engine from the fuel tank.
This gives extra strength to the chassis, but also protects the fuel tank.
You can decide which material (aluminium, carbon/honeycomb) you want to use to make a separation.

Our chassis is made using only round laser cut tubes.
Chris TIG welded his chassis, normally we use MIG.

 

[Thomas]

Just came across this very interesting thread and thought you might be interested to hear that there is a very nice P917K-LMK1971 for sale in Austria. It stood right next to my CAV GT40 which I bought there this June.
It is an authentic replica of the 1971 Le Mans winner, car no 22 with the Austrian Driver Helmut Marko and Gijs von Lennep.
I could post some nice pics I took with my iPhone when picking up my GT40 if you are interested. I can also put you into contact with the seller.
It even has a road licence for legal road use in Austria which is a unique exeption. Don't know the price though but I am sure I can find out.

Here you go with a link to the dealer's Website - unfortunately there is only one photo (while there were 78 for my GT40 when it was up for sale (in fact it's still there but marked sold ;-)

http://www.classiccarcenter.at/aktuell-im-angebot/personenkraftwagen/porsche-917-k-lmk-1971/



Thomas

 

[Thomas]

Here you go with the pics I mentioned above

 

[TrevS]

WOW, that looks stunning. I've sent you a PM Thomas

 

[Thierry B]

Is it Ottokar Jacobs 917 ?

 

[Thomas]

Is it Ottokar Jacobs 917 ?

Good guess but no, it's not.

But I can tell you (and Trevor in particular) that it's a Kraftwerkz replica at its best. It has an air-cooled 3,8 l 911 engine and 5 speed 911 transmission.

WerkzCars "Manufacturer of the Porsche 906 and Kraftwerkz LMK 917 replica"

I have a 8 pages article of this very car where the original price is quoted with roughly EUR 180k but unfortunately it's only in German. The owner has a lot of other Porsches (all the others being originals) and I am sure the sale is not about money same as it has been the case with the GT40 I bought just recently which allowed me to negotiate quite some discount from the original price also because it's just such a narrow market. On the other hand, and similar to my GT40 this 917 is registered for road use which I am afraid will not work in the future so this makes such cars the last opportunity for potential sellers (I originally wanted to have my own CAV GT built but no more chance to get it registered and the one I bought was the only registered one for sale for years)

Trevor, as discussed via PM I will try to get more facts and a contact for you on Monday.

Thomas

 

[Michel]

180 K euros !
With such amount of money I guess any good professional builder will start a project for you based on the Marcel and Chris kit which can be easily IVA'ed in UK and with much more room and parts you can find easily on the future in UK near you ( preventing to have to order those abroad very far and very pricy spares)
The fact that car is registred in Austria is effectivly interesting for An european customer ( beside the fact all "inland" countries have their own regulations to import cars of this sort) ...don't think that bringing back to UK the car there will be some issues to registrate her ( reading the big IVA book !!)
Just my 2.....

 

[Thomas]

180 K euros !
With such amount of money I guess any good professional builder will start a project for you based on the Marcel and Chris kit which can be easily IVA'ed in UK and with much more room and parts you can find easily on the future in UK near you ( preventing to have to order those abroad very far and very pricy spares)
The fact that car is registred in Austria is effectivly interesting for An european customer ( beside the fact all "inland" countries have their own regulations to import cars of this sort) ...don't think that bringing back to UK the car there will be some issues to registrate her ( reading the big IVA book !!)
Just my 2.....

The 180k were mentioned in the magazine coverage and I guess this was the original price to get it built by the first owner (it's by the way still with the first owner) but I hope to be able to find out the current price early next week.
And then it's always the question whether you'd rather want an almost 1:1 copy or only a look alike and from what I can see from the manufacturers website this is as close as you can get and also in the article they are saying that only an expert would recognise the difference (except for the engine and transmission and also the sound is said to be very authentic.

 

[Michel]

Beg you pardon but have you been at the manufacturer site ?

You write an 1:1 copy

Chassis is steel welded tubes ; original one was aluminium !!
Front and rear uprights have nothing to do with historic ones
They argue too that their suspension is an improvment of the old one !!
front and rear brakes are modern ones
Clutch is hydraulic actuated not with cables like on the original one
Gearbox is an flipped G50 with CV joints on halfshafts ! totally different on every point to the original one
ETC ETC ......
So Beside the fact the bodywork is very similar to the real one ( in fact it have been done probably with some original parts then"remasterised" to do more accurate molds ( This mean that if you take one clip and try to fit it on an old chassis it will not fit very very well)
so beside this and also the fact I agree painting have been done accuratly this car is a Replica only like many others have been done in US or in South Africa !!
To me when I think at 1:1 Copy am more inclined to admire Gunnar work with his 917/001 or there Graham with his personnal 917 creation these are projects to which I take my hat twice !!
1:1 copy is quite say "Recreation"
This car is like All others ; a Replica ; and as it was witten all various brands( US ,Australian and SouthAfrican ) are to be congratulated for the work they do but not as 1:1 copy

So again 180 K euros it's arespectable price and again the work they did on that car is really absolutly feasable for good professionals and skilled people
working in the UK
Buy watever brand of kit existing is more or less 50 k euros , add 20k for engine and gear box ... this leave 110 k for labor !!!
Just understand what I am wondering ; This amount is not crazy, it's a quite reasonable price and the car is avery nice car but to me this is not the "bargain" of the year and such a car is refeasable easily ( with all these replica supplier existing)

 

[Alex]

That price seems more than fair.

I've got $150k USD into mine so far and far from finished. It's like there's a #@$@## hoover attached to me at all times.

That's the price i'd be demanding for mine if I ever sold.

//insert random forum e-hero who will say they could build one far cheaper because they can weld have have a 5-axis mill in their garage

 

[Keith]

//insert random forum e-hero who will say they could build one far cheaper because they can weld have have a 5-axis mill in their garage

:laugh: How true is that!

 

[Thomas]

Michel, no I have not checked out the details of their website and I am far of being an expert in this field, same as I am not am expert in 917s as this is out of reach anyway. Being 6"6 or 198cm I am glad I fit into my CAV GT ;-)