Please Stop My Confusion

[Bill Lonchas]

Folks,
I would all appreciate your honesty here as I am driving myself crazy reading all these threads on GT40, Facebook and other forums. I am looking for my next build after completing a FFR MKIV and understand that the SLC, GT-R from Superlite, Ultima RS, and the Factory Five GTM will be totally different builds. What keeps me up at night and from pulling the trigger on my next build is all the banter on quality control (or lack thereof) that is being seen on these different cars. I know that these cars are not build by number and take a lot of customization and some of the forum traffic is problem solving, but there seems to be a lot of gripes about the component quality and hardware used by different manufacturers.

Factory Five GTM - Out of production, body is a challenge, heat management is a major issue and parts support is waning due to diminishing donor cars in acceptable condition. The one positive is that I have found a virgin (not started) Gen II GTM.

Superlite SLC and GT-R - Much banter about the quality of product and parts coming out of the manufacturer. I am not sure it his Fran's fault, as I here he is a stand up guy and when I talked with him he always answers my questions.

Ultima RS - Long standing design, foreign produced and very costly compared to other kits.

Please give me your thoughts on this subject. I understand that these are not mass produced cars and do not expect the same quality as seen from big manufacturers.

Thanks

Bill

 

[Rich Kruger]

Just curious what you heard of the SLC quality. My personal experience has been exemplary for parts and tech support.

 

[Bill Lonchas]

Reading the threads on this site with issues of weld quality, chassis alignment, steering box problems, etc. Nothing that would stop a purchase, but wanted opinions.

 

[Jeff W]

The issue with the SL-C is that the quality can be sometimes unpredictable, but that's the exception, not the rule. Some people have gotten bad welds. The body can be very thin in some places. It can be difficult to get parts included in the kit, many are waiting years for steering racks and other critical parts. Sometimes parts are not delivered in great shape.

The GTM has the (IMO) drawback of being a "real" kit car, as in lots of donor parts, a tube frame that is much more work to seal up and make pretty, and as you mentioned, takes a lot more effort to get the body put together correctly. You feel like you're driving a kit because you're looking at donor car factory parts. It takes a lot of work to make one of these not look like a kit. There are absolutley amazing GTM builds out there, so don't think I'm bashing the car. It will just take more work and time to get it past the "it's a kit" stage.

The Ultima is pricey, and that's probably the biggest drawback, and you're more limited on engine/trans combinations. I also don't think I've seen modded Ultimas the way people mod their SL-Cs. You kind of build what you get.

However, overall the SL-C is the middle option between the GTM and the Ultima. Purpose built monocoque frame, custom CNC machined suspension and engine frame, custom glass, lots of freedom to go as high or low budget on the build as you want, lots of engine and trans options, lots of freedom on how to build any aspect of the car. The SL-C is a really good choice if you like having tons of build options and a good looking finished product off the shelf. A lot of owners customize the body in some way as well and take the "good" car and make it great.

 

[Bill Lonchas]

Jeff,
Thanks for the reply. It is always hard to ascertain builder’s anxiety versus true issues. Let me talk with Fran

 

[Darius Rudis]

I went thru the same dilema... sooooooo many choices, but which one?
Cobra kit car - too common.
GTR - very nice, but too close to looks of 2005 GT40, and expensive. (some were for sale on this forum, _almost_ got it).
GTM - bult LS7, raced, but retiring from 40 years at Ford (no Ch*vy for me).
Superlite - exotic, LOTS of work, mostly LS_ based examples, and didnt like windshield... taste preference.
Ultima RS - very rare, few examples found on internet, but either not-quality build or VERY expensive (either/or).
RCR GT40 - Found a pre-started kit, and excellent price, partly completed (faster build), and BEAUTIFUL!!! <=== TADAAAAH !!!

These were actual vehicles I looked into, and almost purchased:

...and what I fnially came home with:

Decided that I acutally wanted to BUILD one.

 

[Hector]

I absolutely love my SLC now that it is finished , but it took me more than 5 years and more than 3000 hours to have the finished product that I wanted . I spent a lot of time and money on the interior and time consuming mods , such as headlights and tail lights . The biggest disappointment for me is the time required.

I would guess a track car could be built in about 1000 hours but not really sure.

I absolutely love the SLC design, I dont like the GT40 at all, sorry !!!. I dont like the ultima or the GTM either. I considered both as well.

Good luck with your decision

 

[James Shaw]

Bill,

I’m still convinced that FFR will announce a GT40 replica this year. They’re dropping too many hints

That will change the game

 

[Randy V]

Bill,

I’m still convinced that FFR will announce a GT40 replica this year. They’re dropping too many hints

That will change the game

Maybe a bit of wishful thinking?
They have a LOT on their plates right now with the new XTF Truck, the newly released Mark5 Roadster, new Gen3 Type 65, HotRod & Truck. Then there’s their legacy GTM & 818 which they no longer produce but still support.
Dave’s specifically said that the GT40 was neither in their plans or a genre they want to be involved with.
I think the lack of a reasonably priced & robust transaxle is just one thing holding them back.
—
Wishful thinking might be that Factory Five and Smyth Kit Cars would join up. Mark’s done a great job with his Ute conversions..

 

[Randy V]

Like Utes?
Check out https://www.smythkitcars.com/

 

[Rob Klein]

A friend of mine has a Ultima RS, that was professionally built and the quality of the build and the parts is top notch. Like most car builds the last 20% of the build is the most important to resale and long term enjoyment.

If it were me, I would pick the Ultima RS the quality of the fiberglass is sooooo nice. My budding checked just about every option on the build, and even though it's an expensive build he could sell it for more than he paid for it.

But I also am thinking about getting one for a track car.

 

[Bill Lonchas]

I have no idea whether FFR and Dave Smith will eventually go down the path of the GT40, but that is a lot of investment with a multitude of players in this market. Given that they tend to reuse a lot of the components between their different model lines, it will definitely be a departure for them to compete with different car offerings already out there. Dave seems to be very meticulous and business minded in his future planning, and I cannot see him showing or doing anything for at least 12-18 months since they just launched the MK5 and they need some time to work out all the bugs and get some of the options out for this car that are still lagging in the production line.

 

[Jeff W]

I think the lack of a reasonably priced & robust transaxle is just one thing holding them back.

Agreed. IMO this is a barrier to anyone who wants to build a mid-engine car or a manufacturer who wants to sell them. A transaxle is a significant percentage of the build cost, and can regularly cost more than the engine itself depending on type. Best guess is that $15k is a lower mid-range cost for a good transaxle that can handle some torque, a crate motor can be had for $12k. For the SL-C at ~$50k+ kit cost, plus the engine and transaxle, a buyer is at roughly $80k and that's without extras.

Those kinds of prices really limit the customer pool when (not intending to start a debate) for $20K more you could get an off-the-shelf really nicely trimmed Corvette with a factory warranty and all the modern conveniences.

 

[Bill Lonchas]

Jeff,
Thanks for your reply and that is why I have struggled with this decision. If the car for me to build is $80-120K to build, I am not sure there are not better options for building or restoring a car. I may end up going in a totally different direction and restoring/Reston of a Corvette C1.
Thanks
Bill

 

[Jeff W]

Jeff,
Thanks for your reply and that is why I have struggled with this decision. If the car for me to build is $80-120K to build, I am not sure there are not better options for building or restoring a car. I may end up going in a totally different direction and restoring/Reston of a Corvette C1.
Thanks
Bill

Bill, the debate that I was avoiding is exactly what you said. There are two types of customers for the cars discussed. Generally we view them as the Corvette people - people that want nothing to do with the time, effort and expense of a DIY supercar, plus they want to drive it off the lot with all the modern features and warranty as mentioned. The second type is what most of us here are - we want a unique car, maybe hell with the cost, the experience, satisfaction, and pride of accomplishing a good build. The car is truly yours and an expression of your abilities unlike an off-the-shelf car with maybe some bolt-on extras. That's worth much more than forking out $110K for a nice 'Vette to us.

No intent to besmirch an off the lot buyer, that's their thing and that's great for them. Restoration or restomod is great, too. Starting from a known quantity makes it easier and can be cheaper. You do you.

 

[Brian Kissel]

Well, I’m not sure what that makes me. I have a new ZR1 Corvette that I thought was going to be ordered 2 weeks ago . Due to carbon fiber constraints, no customer vehicles have been built yet. On the other hand, I am trying to do a RCR Lola T70mk3b. I have been waiting for well over a year for the engine, which was paid in full last July. We were pretty sure my death was imminent so I wanted it paid for so my wife wouldn’t have to deal with it. I haven’t gotten my car from Fran yet either. This is in NO WAY his fault. Because I had custom billet brakes built, Fran needs to check the rotor hat for modifications. Also the tub may need to be modified to accommodate the Brodix BBC with its accessories. My health has not allowed me to travel down with the parts for mock-up.
Thus the reason for the new Corvette. BUT, I have had the deposit on the ZR1 since August of 2019 when my health started to fade.
Yesterday I ordered a new truck to match the ZR1.

Regards Brian

 

[Joel K]

Well, I’m not sure what that makes me. I have a new ZR1 Corvette that I thought was going to be ordered 2 weeks ago . Due to carbon fiber constraints, no customer vehicles have been built yet. On the other hand, I am trying to do a RCR Lola T70mk3b. I have been waiting for well over a year for the engine, which was paid in full last July. We were pretty sure my death was imminent so I wanted it paid for so my wife wouldn’t have to deal with it. I haven’t gotten my car from Fran yet either. This is in NO WAY his fault. Because I had custom billet brakes built, Fran needs to check the rotor hat for modifications. Also the tub may need to be modified to accommodate the Brodix BBC with its accessories. My health has not allowed me to travel down with the parts for mock-up.
Thus the reason for the new Corvette. BUT, I have had the deposit on the ZR1 since August of 2019 when my health started to fade.
Yesterday I ordered a new truck to match the ZR1.

Regards Brian

Best wishes on your health Brian. You do a great job here on the forum and hope you get to enjoy the toys you’ve ordered!

 

[Brian Kissel]

Thank You Joel, I appreciate it.
I’m trying my darndest. Hope it’s good enough.

Regards Brian

 

[Bill Lonchas]

Well folks I really appreciate the advice given here on this board and still have not pulled the trigger on a direction yet. My follow up comment on the Corvette C1 was not the supercar conundrum, but rather whether to build a newer kit car (SLC, GT-R, GT40 or the Ultima) or go in a different direction and do a restoration. Both ways will require significant funds and I have my eyes wide open here to that fact. I already have a Corvette C8 HTC which I absolutely love and a FFR Roadster MK4 that was a blast to build. I have sold off my Triumph TR6 and BMW Roadster and looking for my next project. Let's just say my wife would like me to build model cars or some other hobby . I just want to be sure of which way I want to go as any of the cars will be a wait in ordering or finding the right project car.
Thanks
Bill