Brett James-McCall
Moderator
David,
Been discussed before. Its OK if you have a central shift, but yours will come from the right
Been discussed before. Its OK if you have a central shift, but yours will come from the right
GT-Forte GTs40 build
- Thread starter fastdruid
- Start date
Fine with a cable shift, a 'solid' shift is a pain to do with the 01E/X without modifying the gearbox.
I've worked through loads of ideas, the 'best' I've come up with is terminate the gearchange shaft after the bulkhead, separate the left-right and front-back into two arms run horizontally across the bulkhead and then two bellcranks to move the shifter. All depends on how much room I have though so waiting until the engine / gearbox is in until I finalise the design.
I've worked through loads of ideas, the 'best' I've come up with is terminate the gearchange shaft after the bulkhead, separate the left-right and front-back into two arms run horizontally across the bulkhead and then two bellcranks to move the shifter. All depends on how much room I have though so waiting until the engine / gearbox is in until I finalise the design.
Just trying to sort a clutch out now.
1UZ-FE is purely an auto, manual conversions it seems favours the 3S-GTE flywheel.
Found this from First Line – The All Makes Specialist (I registered as 'other') btw
Standard Skoda Superb (and Audi A4 / VW Passat) 2.5TDI is a 240mm item, 23 splines, 24.2mm OD, 21.8mm ID
3S-GTE while also 240mm is 21 splines, 29.9mm OD, 25.5mm ID. Bit of a shame its not the same but that would be too much to ask for!
Handily the 3S-GTE flywheel is also 240mm so it _should_ be straight forwards to get a 3S-GTE flywheel with pressure plate, chamfer the ring gear, slot the bolt holes, buy longer bolts, machine the washer and fit an Audi/VW/Skoda clutch plate.
Tragically I can't just buy a 2.5TDI plate as it's a DMF, I need to find an identical fitment SMF clutch plate. I'll have to go through the cars with the 01E and use the clutch plate out of one of the petrol ones.
Just for anyone that's wondering why, on a DMF there are no springs in the clutch plate (as there are springs in the DMF), in a SMF there are springs in the clutch plate as there are none in the flywheel.
DMF's are disposable parts, typically at least twice the price, typically need to be replaced at every clutch change and used mostly in tractors (with a few in petrol engines).
1UZ-FE is purely an auto, manual conversions it seems favours the 3S-GTE flywheel.
Found this from First Line – The All Makes Specialist (I registered as 'other') btw
Standard Skoda Superb (and Audi A4 / VW Passat) 2.5TDI is a 240mm item, 23 splines, 24.2mm OD, 21.8mm ID
3S-GTE while also 240mm is 21 splines, 29.9mm OD, 25.5mm ID. Bit of a shame its not the same but that would be too much to ask for!
Handily the 3S-GTE flywheel is also 240mm so it _should_ be straight forwards to get a 3S-GTE flywheel with pressure plate, chamfer the ring gear, slot the bolt holes, buy longer bolts, machine the washer and fit an Audi/VW/Skoda clutch plate.
Tragically I can't just buy a 2.5TDI plate as it's a DMF, I need to find an identical fitment SMF clutch plate. I'll have to go through the cars with the 01E and use the clutch plate out of one of the petrol ones.
Just for anyone that's wondering why, on a DMF there are no springs in the clutch plate (as there are springs in the DMF), in a SMF there are springs in the clutch plate as there are none in the flywheel.
DMF's are disposable parts, typically at least twice the price, typically need to be replaced at every clutch change and used mostly in tractors (with a few in petrol engines).
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
Careful - you need to get the adaptor plate etc first to make sure the splines are in the right place against the input shaft, not all drive plate shave the same offsets. They will not all be the same. I got mine made at Helix.
You really need now to decide on what engine and adaptor you will use. Also, if you buy a kit they may come with the drive plate anhoos.
B
You really need now to decide on what engine and adaptor you will use. Also, if you buy a kit they may come with the drive plate anhoos.
B
I've been playing with templates to fill in the rear the same as Andy and Trevor have done.
The more I think on it I'm not really happy with it like this though. It 'should' look rather more like this (AMGT40/1 from racing icons site)
No matter what I do its never going to be a copy but the bent 'arms' are far more slanted on the real cars, they're almost vertical on mine so the fold is negligible and to my mind looks worse than not having a fold but then looks llarge, awkward and wrong without it. I'll try making the fold more pronounced so it meets the chassis member partway down instead and flatten it off at the end and round. Far more tricky to make but should look much better.
Anyway I do it its going to be a right pain to make though, minimum of 8 folds. :-/
The more I think on it I'm not really happy with it like this though. It 'should' look rather more like this (AMGT40/1 from racing icons site)
No matter what I do its never going to be a copy but the bent 'arms' are far more slanted on the real cars, they're almost vertical on mine so the fold is negligible and to my mind looks worse than not having a fold but then looks llarge, awkward and wrong without it. I'll try making the fold more pronounced so it meets the chassis member partway down instead and flatten it off at the end and round. Far more tricky to make but should look much better.
Anyway I do it its going to be a right pain to make though, minimum of 8 folds. :-/
Keith, quite. Tragically unless I both have a (very) large lottery win *and* have a big fat dose of luck AMGT40/1 will forever be out of my reach.... It was just the best picture I could find of that section of a GT40 online (my 'library' contains many such pictures but they're not mine to re-distribute). Views of that area are relatively rare as most have wheels in the way and the same will of course be true when its completed. 
I'm not building a 'replica' (more a homage) and it wouldn't fool anyone (who knew GT40's) for more than a millisecond, I just wasn't happy with and while it wouldn't be visible it would be one of those niggles if I did it in a way I didn't like.
I'll try a few more templates, although I'm running out of card, its cheaper to buy aluminium...
I'm not building a 'replica' (more a homage) and it wouldn't fool anyone (who knew GT40's) for more than a millisecond, I just wasn't happy with and while it wouldn't be visible it would be one of those niggles if I did it in a way I didn't like.
I'll try a few more templates, although I'm running out of card, its cheaper to buy aluminium...
Few more bits came through the post today.
Smiths '8cyl' tacho
Fabricated GT40 style pedal box
Not the pedal box the kit was designed to be used with but was at too good a price to say no to.
Going to take a little bit of work to get to fit, I think I'm either going to have to lose the RHS mounts off it to move it right or take a bit off the top as it looks like its going to be right in the way of the steering column. I may also lose the rear mounts so I can move it back too but I'll have to see how things fit when I have the central tunnel and steering column in place.
I'll have to get a proper dead pedal for it now too.
Also got the forstner bit through.
The real eagle eyed might spot its a 50mm rather than a 52mm, three good reasons for that, firstly so 2in gauges (ie 50.8mm) holes could be cut if I get true imperial gauges, secondly I figured its better to cut slightly undersize and use some sandpaper to enlarge slightly. Finally it was ~£15 cheaper than a 51mm or 52mm bit!
Going to pick up the engine first thing tomorrow, going to be a squeeze but should fit in the boot of my car with room to spare, I'm just not quite sure how get it in and out!
On a related note I've found Thor Racing are ~1mile from where I work. That could end up expensive...
Plan is for *no* tuning at least until its IVA'd and on the road... Unless I pick up a set of GT28's for a song anyway
Smiths '8cyl' tacho
Fabricated GT40 style pedal box
Not the pedal box the kit was designed to be used with but was at too good a price to say no to.
Going to take a little bit of work to get to fit, I think I'm either going to have to lose the RHS mounts off it to move it right or take a bit off the top as it looks like its going to be right in the way of the steering column. I may also lose the rear mounts so I can move it back too but I'll have to see how things fit when I have the central tunnel and steering column in place.
I'll have to get a proper dead pedal for it now too.
Also got the forstner bit through.
The real eagle eyed might spot its a 50mm rather than a 52mm, three good reasons for that, firstly so 2in gauges (ie 50.8mm) holes could be cut if I get true imperial gauges, secondly I figured its better to cut slightly undersize and use some sandpaper to enlarge slightly. Finally it was ~£15 cheaper than a 51mm or 52mm bit!
Going to pick up the engine first thing tomorrow, going to be a squeeze but should fit in the boot of my car with room to spare, I'm just not quite sure how get it in and out!
On a related note I've found Thor Racing are ~1mile from where I work. That could end up expensive...
Plan is for *no* tuning at least until its IVA'd and on the road... Unless I pick up a set of GT28's for a song anyway
Hi David, It's almost identical to the picture above it . " JOKING "
Exactly what is it, at the moment it looks like a world war two engine that you dug up.
But there's always pride of seeing the finished product compared to when you picked it up. I have a collection of early Norton motorcycles from 1924 onwards and you should see the condition before I restored them
With Ultrasonic cleaning the ally will look like new, If I had time I would build my engine as well.
Exactly what is it, at the moment it looks like a world war two engine that you dug up.
But there's always pride of seeing the finished product compared to when you picked it up. I have a collection of early Norton motorcycles from 1924 onwards and you should see the condition before I restored them
With Ultrasonic cleaning the ally will look like new, If I had time I would build my engine as well.
Heh, quite. 20 years and 90k miles, not that pretty! Dirty and furry. Still, should clean up nicely.
I've been amazed at the state of the sbf engines some builders have started from, this is almost brand new in comparison!
Its currently sat in place in the car, I'll stick some pictures up when I get to a computer.
I've been amazed at the state of the sbf engines some builders have started from, this is almost brand new in comparison!
Its currently sat in place in the car, I'll stick some pictures up when I get to a computer.
I just sat the engine in to see how it was for clearance
Probably want's to go forward an inch or so more, as it stands it doesn't intrude into the cabin although one of the water pipes comes mighty close.
The big finned thing at the front that nearly intrudes btw is the drive for the original fan and will be lost. Wish I'd removed it beforehand as it made getting the engine in rather tricky.
View isn't too blocked out of the rear 'window'. It can't go any lower without changing the gearbox and may even need to come up a touch.
It'll need a couple of mounts made up but the original mounts bolt holes are perfectly located
Worst problem is that the rear exhaust ports are going to be *tight* on the headers.
Probably want's to go forward an inch or so more, as it stands it doesn't intrude into the cabin although one of the water pipes comes mighty close.
The big finned thing at the front that nearly intrudes btw is the drive for the original fan and will be lost. Wish I'd removed it beforehand as it made getting the engine in rather tricky.
View isn't too blocked out of the rear 'window'. It can't go any lower without changing the gearbox and may even need to come up a touch.
It'll need a couple of mounts made up but the original mounts bolt holes are perfectly located
Worst problem is that the rear exhaust ports are going to be *tight* on the headers.
Forgot to add, the sump is a tiny amount below the bottom of the car but the engine is currently tilted slightly forwards and I'm not 100% sure on the height as I roughly measured the gearbox input shaft to bottom of the gearbox and then set the engine up the same height above the chassis. The gearbox might sit between the chassis rails slightly which would allow it to sit lower but as its not symmetrical I can't easily tell. The engine front to back again I guestimated from the end of the gearbox to the centre of the output shafts +20mm and then putting that roughly where I thought the shafts should be.
I think the sump should sit level with the bottom of the chassis but certainly even if it sits below its going to be of the order of a cm or so, not enough to warrant modifying.
I think the sump should sit level with the bottom of the chassis but certainly even if it sits below its going to be of the order of a cm or so, not enough to warrant modifying.
Today I measured 95in from the front axle line. Looks like the engine will have to go back 3cm not forwards!
Anyway not a lot of interesting stuff, spent last night working out where all the tubes and stuff went on the engine, what I could get rid of (EGR for example) and what was missing. Only two ports without tubes (don't know what they are) and two unidentified items. Missing one H/T lead, one spacer, a/c compressor, P/S steering pump and AFM. AFM is the only one I'm really bothered about. Turned the engine by hand and it moves at least, no nasty noises and appears to have compression.
Tonight I started off cleaning the gearbox. Ran out of engine cleaner/degreaser though, much cleaner in places but still nasty!
Then I started working out where the wiring loom went and how much I had of it. Looks to be complete, taken out from inside the bulkhead rather than chopped (hurrah). Identified nearly all the connectors, only a few extras.
Alternator plug is missing and crank sensor plug is broken, think I have all the bits needed to run it though.
I'm not going to *do* anything with the engine and wiring yet (apart from clean it) but I need to know what to look out for on ebay etc.
Oh I also picked up a brand new LUK clutch plate for £10, I had a slight worry the splines were wrong (figured at £10 it was worth a punt) but it fits a treat. Only worry now is I have a nasty feeling its a DMF clutch plate and so has no springs. I think I'll probably end up using this for experimentation and try and get a sprung SMF plate for 'real'.
No pictures because my phone seems to be having a strop about uploading them.
Anyway not a lot of interesting stuff, spent last night working out where all the tubes and stuff went on the engine, what I could get rid of (EGR for example) and what was missing. Only two ports without tubes (don't know what they are) and two unidentified items. Missing one H/T lead, one spacer, a/c compressor, P/S steering pump and AFM. AFM is the only one I'm really bothered about. Turned the engine by hand and it moves at least, no nasty noises and appears to have compression.
Tonight I started off cleaning the gearbox. Ran out of engine cleaner/degreaser though, much cleaner in places but still nasty!
Then I started working out where the wiring loom went and how much I had of it. Looks to be complete, taken out from inside the bulkhead rather than chopped (hurrah). Identified nearly all the connectors, only a few extras.
Alternator plug is missing and crank sensor plug is broken, think I have all the bits needed to run it though.
I'm not going to *do* anything with the engine and wiring yet (apart from clean it) but I need to know what to look out for on ebay etc.
Oh I also picked up a brand new LUK clutch plate for £10, I had a slight worry the splines were wrong (figured at £10 it was worth a punt) but it fits a treat. Only worry now is I have a nasty feeling its a DMF clutch plate and so has no springs. I think I'll probably end up using this for experimentation and try and get a sprung SMF plate for 'real'.
No pictures because my phone seems to be having a strop about uploading them.
Brett James-McCall
Moderator
David,
What year is the engine?
What year is the engine?
I've been busy but nothing really to show. Fair amount of playing with Solidworks, measuring, dismantling and cleaning.
WRT to engine to gearbox looks like I'll make my own adapter, then sort out either the BNC flywheel or get one custom made. BNC make a nice adapter but just the wrong exhange rate with Oz at the moment, just feels wrong to spend 2.5 times the engine and gearbox cost on joining them together!
Anyway, the point of this post is I remembered today I meant to attach this Excel document for those looking for an Audi gearbox.
It's just the data from Zuordnung Fahrzeug, MKB, GKB, AKB, MJ but reformatted to allow filtering and searching.
It doesn't contain other Volkswagen AG cars such as Skoda or VW, When looking remember that the 2.5TDI boxes are almost all suitable.
I'll be honest I've had it for ages but didn't post it to avoid anyone bidding on the same gearboxes as me.
WRT to engine to gearbox looks like I'll make my own adapter, then sort out either the BNC flywheel or get one custom made. BNC make a nice adapter but just the wrong exhange rate with Oz at the moment, just feels wrong to spend 2.5 times the engine and gearbox cost on joining them together!
Anyway, the point of this post is I remembered today I meant to attach this Excel document for those looking for an Audi gearbox.
It's just the data from Zuordnung Fahrzeug, MKB, GKB, AKB, MJ but reformatted to allow filtering and searching.
It doesn't contain other Volkswagen AG cars such as Skoda or VW, When looking remember that the 2.5TDI boxes are almost all suitable.
I'll be honest I've had it for ages but didn't post it to avoid anyone bidding on the same gearboxes as me.
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Combination of being a bit ill with a cold, it being freezing in the garage and christmas coming up means I've done sod all on the car!
One thing however is that Doug who has also attached a 1UZ-FE to an Audi box very generously sent me the plans for the adapter. After asking what his position was regarding copyright he's decided to make them free for non-commercial use and put them up on his website.
So if anyone wants to attach a 1UZ-FE to an 012, 01E (and I think 01X) the plans are at 1TG – Design & Build of the One Tonne Guerilla » Toyota 1UZ-FE Engine to Audi 012 Transmission (Porsche G86) Adapter Drawings.
One thing however is that Doug who has also attached a 1UZ-FE to an Audi box very generously sent me the plans for the adapter. After asking what his position was regarding copyright he's decided to make them free for non-commercial use and put them up on his website.
So if anyone wants to attach a 1UZ-FE to an 012, 01E (and I think 01X) the plans are at 1TG – Design & Build of the One Tonne Guerilla » Toyota 1UZ-FE Engine to Audi 012 Transmission (Porsche G86) Adapter Drawings.
Over a month since an update. Shocking.
Although I've not been as busy on the car I've been working steadily at the odds and sods that make up building a kit car. Upside to buying a 'basic' kit is that you get to totally customise how you want the car. Downside is that you get to totally customise how you want the car...
That of course means you have to make all the decisions, source everything and that takes time. That's what you pay for when you splash out on that 'deluxe everything included kit', someone has put the hard work (time) in for you.
Anyway, my wife bought me a air/hydraulic riveter for Christmas which will come in handy and so in the last month I've:
Plus I've been hard at work cleaning up the engine. Starting at the very top and working down. Mostly because the very top will be on show.
Should really have got a better picture before I started but this is the inlet manifold
These are the inlet tracts.
and this is the inlet manifold it stands now
What I'm undecided about is do I polish it or just clean it up and paint it?
The RHS in this picture is about 80% polished, it'll still need a lot of work.
If I do paint it, what colour should I do it, I was thinking black and polish the fins up? Any comments or other suggestions welcome.
What those pictures don't show is the mess a modern inlet manifold gets in after 90k. EGR, just say eaugh, no thanks :furious:. Foolishly didn't take a picture of the nastyness that was the inside of the manifold before I started but this is the EGR manifold (which bolts onto the inlet manifold)
It should look rather more like this
It's not going back on btw, no EGR for me but I need the manifold as it's also used for the crankcase vent!
I'll take a picture of the inlet manifold throttle valve when I remember, nasty.
Although I've not been as busy on the car I've been working steadily at the odds and sods that make up building a kit car. Upside to buying a 'basic' kit is that you get to totally customise how you want the car. Downside is that you get to totally customise how you want the car...
That of course means you have to make all the decisions, source everything and that takes time. That's what you pay for when you splash out on that 'deluxe everything included kit', someone has put the hard work (time) in for you.Anyway, my wife bought me a air/hydraulic riveter for Christmas which will come in handy and so in the last month I've:
- Ordered the engine to gearbox adapter plate (its been cut and is being machined at the moment)
- Ordered the oil filter/cooler take off plate.
- Bought some fuel tank sensors.
- Worked out how I'll run the fuel circuit
- Ordered enough electronic components to build the trial fuel controller.
- Ordered an injector rebuild set (pintle caps, o-rings, seals, micro-filters).
- Ordered a whole load of fiddly bits, gasket paper, hole punches, misc crap etc.
Plus I've been hard at work cleaning up the engine. Starting at the very top and working down. Mostly because the very top will be on show.
Should really have got a better picture before I started but this is the inlet manifold
These are the inlet tracts.
and this is the inlet manifold it stands now
What I'm undecided about is do I polish it or just clean it up and paint it?
The RHS in this picture is about 80% polished, it'll still need a lot of work.
If I do paint it, what colour should I do it, I was thinking black and polish the fins up? Any comments or other suggestions welcome.
What those pictures don't show is the mess a modern inlet manifold gets in after 90k. EGR, just say eaugh, no thanks :furious:. Foolishly didn't take a picture of the nastyness that was the inside of the manifold before I started but this is the EGR manifold (which bolts onto the inlet manifold)
It should look rather more like this
It's not going back on btw, no EGR for me but I need the manifold as it's also used for the crankcase vent!
I'll take a picture of the inlet manifold throttle valve when I remember, nasty.
