Frozen Block - Any tips?

[Ron Earp]

Well, the Lola got frozen over the last few weeks and the freeze plugs blew out of the block. I store the car inside on my trailer but that wasn't enough to keep out the cold. We had a week of weather in mid-January where the temps dropped down into the low double digits. I was on a cruise in the Bahamas so didn't pay it any mind.

Anyhow, I got the Lola off the trailer yesterday and found that a freeze plug on each side of the engine was blown out. Bleh.

The question I've got for those that have experienced this before, what are the chances of damage? The engine has a thermostat if that makes any difference. The plugs blew out, which is a good thing, but I'm not certain that saved the radiator or even saved the engine. Thoughts?

That'll learn me.

 

[Jac Mac]

How many consecutive nights did it get below freezing, my experience with jet boats is that block/head damage occurs on the second or third -refreeze- particularly after a partial thaw if nothing is done, on a SBF most likely crack areas are in valley & anywhere along each side, heads just above spark plug line & in around rocker stud boss's, even after the freeze plugs were pushed out the remaining water in block below plug level can still freeze & crack block, thermostat is not a factor---- next time you will run a coolant/glycol mix in the system .....wont you

 

[Randy V]

Ouch!

The engine is probably okay but I would inspect for cracks on the outside.. If none on the outside - you're probably fine.
Put rubber expanding plugs in to test it - you can buy them at NAPA.
Pressure test it before you start/run it.. If it won't hold pressure there's no sense in going any further..

Radiator - It's anybody's guess.. Thermostat - I'd replace it as it does not take much to foul them up.

 

[Ron Earp]

Well....poo. It just never gets cold down where I live so I sort of forgot about it. Plus, I work out in the garage an routinely warm it up to 65-70F in the winter and figured that would keep things just fine. Except, I don't warm it up when I'm gone.

Was frozen solid for about four days, so no freeze thaw cycles. I think I can beat the plugs back in, but I might have to go for an expander plug if I can't access it.

I do have a pressure tester so I can test it out with that. I sure hope it isn't a goner.

 

[Randy V]

I have the thermostat in my shop turned all the way down when not working out there. 45 degrees. It's cheaper than having to replace paints, pressure washer, and also - I suspect - cheaper to warm it up to 65 to work out there if it only has to bring all the metal and air temp up 20 degrees than 50 degrees..

Per Jac's mention of coolant - I always (even in the summer when racing) run at least a 20 percent mix of prestone.. Aluminum, radiators / heads et al - all corrode far too easily without it. Plus - the coolant has a water pump lubricant that helps the pump and seal survive..

I double-clamp all hoses and ensure my hoses are in top shape before every event.. I've not yet dumped coolant on the track unless the car was wrecked - and even then it would evaporate relatively quickly..

I would not beat the plugs back in. They are only good for one install. They will be weakened and they are relatively inexpensive..

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Ron...

 

[Dimi Terleckyj]

Hi Ron

I noticed you mentioned you might be able to beat the plugs back in.

I do hope you were talking about using new plugs and not the old ones as they are are a little oversize so they are an interference fit and once used will no longer have the same tight fit as before if reused.

Huge risk in reusing same plugs.

Dimi

 

[Dave P]

Ron:

Check your heads visually above the center exhaust ports. My friends boat split there a couple of years back. Also between the frost plugs along the block.

 

[Al Jones]

Maximum expansion of water,as ice, occurs at around 4 deg F so I doubt it got that cold where you are but Randy's suggestion to pressure test it (cold, then again when hot if cold showed no leaks) is a good one. DO NOT reuse a freeze out plug. Jac Mac is correct in that the damage can occur on the second or third freeze as water creeps into openings and expands again. If done only once you may be okay, but be aware, those plugs won't pop at just a little below 32 F. If you run it,shut it down soon and check for a white-ish film in the breathers or on the dipstick.

 

[Phil]

Ron:
A friend of mine had a similar problem, and we checked everything including a pressure check. Two plugs popped out, we re-installed new ones and figured we were OK. This was a small block chevy, everything was great until we ran the motor and it had an overheating problem. Turns out the freeze had broken the impeller off the shaft in the water pump. There was no noise from the pump, and the motor took a long time to overheat, but only when it sat at idle.
Good Luck
Phil

 

[Mark Maybury]

Ron,
As phil stated do not start the motor.
Warm the car in your garage until the complete cooling system is thawed out.
Do a visual check on the radiator by looking thru the fins to see if any tubes have expanded. If they have it will impact the cooling capabilitys.
After the motor is thawed out and frost plugs replaced do a pressure test or just run it and check for coolant leaks.
Does your block have frost plugs at the back behind the flywheel?
And as A.J. states do check for water in the oil after running.
Hopefully you will not have any problems.
You might want to install drain valves at the bottom of the block and at a low point near the radiator to drain the water out after the racing season is over.
Good luck
Mark

 

[Cliff Beer]

Smack those freeze plugs back in, fire 'er up and run 'er at red line for 20 minutes. If she's still running then you're probably OK....

Seriously, it's pretty difficult to visually diagnose all the possible locations for cracks. May be a matter of gingerly running her to operating temp then shutting her down and looking for oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil.

Hope all is well.

 

[Ron Earp]

Good tips by all, thanks for those.

We'll put some expanding plugs in because the location precludes putting the fitted plugs. The plug on each side that popped out was the one closest the motor mount and there just isn't enough room to get a driver in there. Plan is to fit the plugs, fill'er up, and use the pressure tester to see if it'll hold pressure. If all is well we'll fire up and get on with it.

As far as temps and thawing etc, not needed. Here is what happened. according to the weather history:

Day 1 - temps went to 15-20F

Days 2-4 - temps stayed at 15-20F, highs never got above 28F. I suspect freezing happened during this period.

Day 5 - outside temp at low of 35F, hasn't been below that since then. Inside of garage has been 50F of higher since Day 5.

So, I think we had one freeze and one thaw, that is it.

 

[Trevor Booth]

Al,
water as it turns to ice has max expansion at 0 º C , it is also becomes less dense at about 9% less than water, hence ice floats on water. Ice melting into water regains max density at 4 º C ( SG = 1)

 

[Mike Trusty]

I hope that you are lucky with no major damage but understand that "freeze plugs" are not "freeze plugs". They are "core plugs" and are there to allow the removal of casting sand during the casting process. They will NOT protect a block or head from cracking but are simply the weakest link and first indication of failure. As mentioned by many do a pressure test first. Then pull plugs and rotate the motor through several cycles before cranking it. The last thing you need now is to hydraulic a cylinder and lose a rod, crank or piston.

 

[Jim Holden]

Ron:
A couple of years back the sb Ford (Boss Block) froze in my ERA289FIA and cracked the rear of the water jacket over the crank. We epoxied the broken part back into the block and ran it that way for a year before I pulled the motor and replaced the block. My impression is that the block can crack almost anywhere.

You may be lucky and replacing the core plugs may be all that you need to do assuming the freeze was not really hard. On the other hand.......

Jim

 

[DBLDREW]

Send a bill to Al Gore for any damages and rebuild costs!!

I’ve never had it where it blew out freeze plugs but I’ve had it where I didn’t have enough antifreeze in the radiator and the radiator was iced up. I just used a torpedo heater blowing at the front of the car to melt it and then fired it up no prob.

 

[Ron Earp]

Looking good so far!

Put in some expanding plugs (no dice on the brass fitted plugs, no clearance) and the system is holding 18 psi with no worries. Now, I know that isn't a 100% clear bill of health but that is a damn good start.

Ron

 

[Alex]

Stupid question/learning time - if you arn't using antifreeze, what are you using? Just straight distilled water? And why wouldn't you use antifreeze? I always thought in any cooling system you always use 50/50, regardless of application, unless you're just testing it for leaks on initial fill (unless it's using something different, like Dexcool, or Evans)

 

[Trevor Booth]

de-mineralised water, not distilled water is a better choice.
Good auto parts places should have it or suppliers to coffee shops as it is used in espresso machines, or perhaps Cosco or similar.

Concentrated anti freeze rather than pre-mixed coolant as it contains water that is not necessarily de-mineralised.

 

[Chris Simpson]

Stupid question/learning time - if you arn't using antifreeze, what are you using? Just straight distilled water? And why wouldn't you use antifreeze? I always thought in any cooling system you always use 50/50, regardless of application, unless you're just testing it for leaks on initial fill (unless it's using something different, like Dexcool, or Evans)

Also the anti freeze mixture is a corrosion inhibitor which is essential IMO if you have aluminium parts, eg heads, in contact with the coolant.

Good luck with it all Ron - what a bummer to come back to that after a nice holiday.

Chris