Chuck's Jaguar D Type Build

[Michel]

Very nice and interesting mod you are planning !!
For sure will give some++++ to your already superb assembly work ......
I just checked on my Le mans Statos pedal arrangement ; are you sure that 5 1/2 " will be ok ??? seems to be very low ?
7 to 9 is more of a range ?
seems that you allready sourced a kit from what you are just picking the pedals ? Isn't more advisable to built also those ( quite simple laser cut parts
to have and weld ?)
From your sketches ; even doing a slightly shorter pedal ( to match foot cinematic on braking) you will have still agood ratio to puch onto the wilwood MC.....

 

[Chuck]

Micheal:

Good points. The pedal height is a concern. I have measured several and find a range from 5 to 9". Seems to be higher seat height, lower pedals, lower seat height, higher pedals. The angle that the foot rests on the floor seems to be key.

By altering the pivot point where the pedal is secured to the top of the foot box fore or aft only 3/4" I can alter the pedal height an inch or more, changing the pedal angle slightly. I may drill a pair of extra holes in the bracket that holds the pedals to give me that flexibility so final adjustment can be made once it is all together.

Good point on fabricating a new set of pedals. If I can't make these work, that will be the next option.

 

[Michel]

"The angle that the foot rests on the floor seems to be key. "

You are perfectly right ; but there is also the cinematic of the end of foot that is important , you need for braking ,to constantly leave the middle of your foot in contact of the middle of pedal ... starting low you will probably loose a lot of effort and feeling in braking .... as you do not have more a pair of MCand possible range of setting pressure on front and rear you will suffer some strange feelings in "hard or sudden breakings"
I can help friendly ( if you need and agree of course!!)if immediatly you give some 3or 4 more dimensions of the pedal and tub area and the level where you are seated I can do on the following hour an 3D cad study for you and will insert my "robot 3D Avatar i use frequently when doing chassis studies
From this study in which i will insert the actual pedal you have,and another bespoke , you could compare and have a better idea before to cut weld anything!!
Up to you !! am ready to help friendly on the following hours !!!!

 

[Michel]

waiting for your advise I did the Wilwood MC !!!! so just to fit into a quick cad study ......

 

[Doug M]

Hello all. So I drove up to Detroit Thursday afternoon and on Friday morning, I got a nice tour of RCR. It’s an amazing place and a Fran is an impressive guy. For a person to be able to come to our country with his passions and dreams and build something like RCR, it really is America in a nutshell. But I digress.

I am now the proud owner of a bunch of signed papers saying that I’ve paid 50% down for a car kit that will be ready for pickup in six months. I’m really looking forward to this adventure and I’m hoping to do as much of this project myself using the resources I have, including the painting (we’ll see how that goes). I have six months before it’s ready to be picked up, so until then, I’ll be getting the engine and transmission ready and collecting bits that I know I’ll need.

I’ve thought about doing my own build thread to ask for wisdom and to hopefully in the long run help Fran sell more kits, so I’ll probably start one in the ‘RCR Forum’ section. I think of this as more of an RCR build and not a Jaguar build, and I also like the GT40 forum interface Vs the others I’ve signed on to.

 

[Chuck]

Congratulations Doug and welcome to the D Type club. Look forward to following your build

Chuck

 

[Chuck]

waiting for your advise I did the Wilwood MC !!!! so just to fit into a quick cad study ......

Well that is impressive CAD work! I appreciate and accept your generous offer.

Here are dimensions which I hope will provide what you need. Thank you.

The seat shown if for test purposes only, but may help put the diagram in perspective.

 

[Barry Minbiole]

Hello all. So I drove up to Detroit Thursday afternoon and on Friday morning, I got a nice tour of RCR. It’s an amazing place and a Fran is an impressive guy. For a person to be able to come to our country with his passions and dreams and build something like RCR, it really is America in a nutshell. But I digress.

I am now the proud owner of a bunch of signed papers saying that I’ve paid 50% down for a car kit that will be ready for pickup in six months. I’m really looking forward to this adventure and I’m hoping to do as much of this project myself using the resources I have, including the painting (we’ll see how that goes). I have six months before it’s ready to be picked up, so until then, I’ll be getting the engine and transmission ready and collecting bits that I know I’ll need.

I’ve thought about doing my own build thread to ask for wisdom and to hopefully in the long run help Fran sell more kits, so I’ll probably start one in the ‘RCR Forum’ section. I think of this as more of an RCR build and not a Jaguar build, and I also like the GT40 forum interface Vs the others I’ve signed on to.

Congrats from another RCR D Type anticipator. What else should we call ourselves who have entered the gestation period for a D??

 

[Michel]

OK , thanks Chuck ( also for trusting rought study could help)
Just read your post this early morning ( there we are Sunday 7 o clock!!!) after a quick coffee will jump into PC and draw with all your diension and then will move 2 sorts of pedals ( long and short one ) and ASAP will post for you with some thoughts( say personnal advises...)
the shatf of MC is allready done and move's freely LOL
Will come back within some hours

 

[Michel]

Roughtly "AvatarJag" positionned with your indications on the cushions
No pedals yet positionned ... will do in following hour !!!!
Seems knees and foot is ok ( will try to insert column as you posted all necessry dimensions .....

 

[Michel]

OK this is the first "cinematic" survey
Shows pedal with your quoted position ; as start braking foot could be ok .....but if you follow pressing just note where foot is going !! and heel being on the drawing under the loor means that you will have an uncomfortable foot position and probably not much of power ?????
Pedal will slide onto top foot??

 

[H.J.Bayer]

Hi Michel,
can you share the CAD file of your AvatarJag?
Looks damn good!

 

[Michel]

Chuck ; hese are some more views
On the first one you can notice what will be the stroke onto the MC ( about 30mm) which is not bad but will be only an issue when bleeding ( need almost 45 mm or better 2 inches at beginning ) and will be also an issue if using similar pedal and MC for clutch
A/ because clutch need a much bigger volume displacement of liquid for quick change( don't know if Wilwood provide ?
B/ to bleed clutch it will be mandatory to have longer stroke due to longer stroke with the receiver cylinder slave
So just check those drawings ...if you are happy with I can try to draw another pedal form and maybe locate slightly differently axle pedal under the pedal box roof ( there is probably one smart solution to find matching to the pic of the real deal you posted ........need some brain storming !!)
Any thoughts ???? will follow as soon as you post some advise or question ( now I can move watever part on the CAD study)

 

[Michel]

Ouuuuuups !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apologise about non having browse enought your pics !!! did that minutes ago and undertsood I forgot to draw the front chassis which seem to be on the middle of the stuff I draw !!!!
So will go back to the file and try to draw something realistic from your pic !!!!!!!!

 

[Chuck]

Michael

Those drawings are amazing.

I have never thought much about pedal geometry and how the foot pivots when applying the brake and and clutch. But it seems to me that we are not dealing solely ( no pun intended ) with a pivot point at the bottom of the foot where it rests on the floor. Rather the foot may indeed pivot but in addition the entire leg also moves so that the fully depressed pedal position has more of the ball of the foot pushing rather than just the toes. That would be why the driver's thighs can't rest tightly on the forward edge of the seat in the normal driving position: there needs to be a little bit of a space to get leg motion into compressing the brake and clutch.

Presumably with light braking the foot would pivot on the floor without needing the leg's motion, but in that case the brake is only depressed slightly so the toes would not reach the pedal.

As noted, I have never thought about this geometry before, so my analysis may be flawed. But if my analysis is correct, than what you have illustrated looks feasible. I wonder if your CAD can incorporate some leg motion in addition the pivot of the ankle joint.

Regarding the clutch, it is indeed a larger diameter MC: 7/8" rather tan 3/4". I have the same clutch system on the GT40 and it works very well.

What you have drawn is REALLY helpful.

 

[Michel]

Am happy you could better visualize the mount !!!
now this is abetter view with the front chassis in !!!! ( have done only with eye watching the pic but seems helpfull!!)
So this would mean that you need to lift the pivot point so all stuff could be lift up to clear the square tube
this will be also the solution to get the pedal to an acceptable and good position on slow and hard braking ?
Do you want me to draw something to hold the pedal and modify also the avatar jag legs???

 

[Chuck]

Michael

We don't have a problem with clearance with the square tube. The clutch MC and pedal will be directly to the left of the steering column and the brake will be directly to the right, with plenty of room to spare for the accelerator pedal.

Moving the pivot point above the foot well creates a new set of issues regarding the design of the pedals, would require cutting a large opening with a filler plate so the pedal could pass through or a bolt on pedal surface so the arm could clear the slot in the foot well. It would also require raising or angling the MC. I prefer to keep the pivot point just below the top of the foot well, as in my drawing. Here is a mockup showing location of MC.

 

[Michel]

While you where posting the last message I did some tries !!!
Yes I understood that it was tricky to cut all top of the box
So now I moved just little the moving point and tried to fit the 2 pédals
so watch at this last view ...
I modified just alittle the top part of the pedal in order to get an acceptable ratio of 3.56
Now stroke onto the MC's is quite enought and do not interfer toomuch with the angle of the brake rod
Cinematic of pedal is still low but acceptable specially if you fit more tilted to back
Would be perfect in drawing a slightly shorter one ........and the ration would be much better

 

[Michel]

Do not know if the 2 pedals can be fit so close that the brake rod will not have to be up to the square tube
Will try to puch as much as possible near column

 

[Michel]

Have tried to pusch the clutch pedal as far as possible but need some space to fit bolt with no interference to the shaft colum
then it leave not big space to fit the brake pedal ???
Problem is probably becaus I do not have the right width for the pedal area ???
So far the only mod if to get the right dimension for the upper part of pedals ( cantilever part) and the right place for the rotating axle of pedals
Now those are on the file and can be measured