Superlite GTA

[Leon R]

I am hardly an NT expert . But toward the end of production (98/99), Mitsu embraced NT’s at the main money maker and the future of the Eclipse, so they offered just about anything from Turbo/AWD modes on the NT’s (including the turbo spoiler). I wouldn’t get hung up on getting the “right” interior. Clean, rust free shell is the most important part! It would be a mistake to compromise on the shell in the name of getting the “perfect interior”. You can always swap interiors later, but you can’t (easily) swap the body .


Even if you aren’t going to use the 4G63 (BIG mistake, BTW ), I wouldn’t rule out turbo cars! You can often find them just as cheap as NT’s and you will be able to get your money back by selling the parts (ether to DSM’ers or so other Apex builders, who didn’t make the same mistake!)

 

[Justin Hutson]

I am hardly an NT expert . But toward the end of production (98/99), Mitsu embraced NT’s at the main money maker and the future of the Eclipse, so they offered just about anything from Turbo/AWD modes on the NT’s (including the turbo spoiler). I wouldn’t get hung up on getting the “right” interior. Clean, rust free shell is the most important part! It would be a mistake to compromise on the shell in the name of getting the “perfect interior”. You can always swap interiors later, but you can’t (easily) swap the body .


Even if you aren’t going to use the 4G63 (BIG mistake, BTW ), I wouldn’t rule out turbo cars! You can often find them just as cheap as NT’s and you will be able to get your money back by selling the parts (ether to DSM’ers or so other Apex builders, who didn’t make the same mistake!)

Yeah that's true, I actually thought about buying this really nice one here to DD for now then tear it apart for the apex later. It makes 450 or 500awhp but I honestly would sell the entire drivetrain. I always owned 3000gts and built gt40 single kit for the stock 3L, but now shops are using the 6g75 blocks from the mistu SUVs, the 3000gt heads still bolt to it and with now block work it's a 3.5L, but can go up to 4.2L with all billet internals, that coupled with two big turbos and a built 6 speed trans will make for a pretty insane ride. I work for my family boiler and welding company so all I really do is weld and pipe fitting so the work to the subframe from Fran and the exhaust and intercooler piping will be easy for me to build...

 

[Leon R]

I understand the desire to stick to your niche engine, since you are the 3000GT/Stealth guy.

But the entire “strocker thing” does not work well on 4G63 (FOR RACING). It is very easy to built 2.3 and 2.4 versions of the engine and you get more torque at lower RPM, but it starts to drop off at higher RPM, so you end up with the same power. End result: same power (just as fast), but a lot more drivetrain destroying torque (not a good combination for racing, but it is considered more streetable by some people). That is why you see so many top cars still using 2.0 engines.

 

[Justin Hutson]

I understand the desire to stick to your niche engine, since you are the 3000GT/Stealth guy.

But the entire “strocker thing” does not work well on 4G63 (FOR RACING). It is very easy to built 2.3 and 2.4 versions of the engine and you get more torque at lower RPM, but it starts to drop off at higher RPM, so you end up with the same power. End result: same power (just as fast), but a lot more drivetrain destroying torque (not a good combination for racing, but it is considered more streetable by some people). That is why you see so many top cars still using 2.0 engines.

I see your point, I know there are more than 10 3.8L strokers, all making over 1000 all wheel hp, all have been running fine with major issues. The shop owner has ties from a funny car he worked for. He got the hookup and the same materials they use in funny car and top fuel. It's obviously alot more expensive to build it with same parts but even the factory forged internal are really reliable. Once all the proper upgrades are made to the 6 speed trans the drivetrain will be bullet proof. Also those eclipses are mostly awd right? I'm sure at even stock power the car would spin the tires off the line which should protect the trans and axles more than an awd car..

 

[Leon R]

Also those eclipses are mostly awd right?

No, at least, not originally. Vast majority of Eclipses/Talons were non-turbo FWD (powered by Chrysler engine, derived from Neon 2.0). AWD cars offered the best performance (especially after modifications), so they were THE choice for enthusiasts, who kept them going over the last 14-18 years.

Consequently, AWD and FWD turbo cars have survived at a much higher rate than FWD NT cars, so your statement might actually be true.

 

[Justin Hutson]

No, at least, not originally. Vast majority of Eclipses/Talons were non-turbo FWD (powered by Chrysler engine, derived from Neon 2.0). AWD cars offered the best performance (especially after modifications), so they were THE choice for enthusiasts, who kept them going over the last 14-18 years.

Consequently, AWD and FWD turbo cars have survived at a much higher rate than FWD NT cars, so your statement might actually be true.

I meant the cars breaking parts from stroker builds were awd, I assumed any fwd cars wouldn't break as much being the car will spin where the awd stroker cars find the weak points in the drivetrain because of the added traction from being awd.

 

[Justin Hutson]

No, at least, not originally. Vast majority of Eclipses/Talons were non-turbo FWD (powered by Chrysler engine, derived from Neon 2.0). AWD cars offered the best performance (especially after modifications), so they were THE choice for enthusiasts, who kept them going over the last 14-18 years.

Consequently, AWD and FWD turbo cars have survived at a much higher rate than FWD NT cars, so your statement might actually be true.

Double post.. My bad

 

[Justin Hutson]

I'd love to see the car with the body on it next to a sl-c, I've asked friends what they think from showing the full sized clay, they said the front seems "off" but I think it's the picture making it look weird

 

[Scott Davis]

I drove up to RCR pulling a trailer with a ’99 Eclipse which I had bought because it had never been hit, had no rust, and a nice interior. It was an automatic with the undesirable 420A motor. Yes, this SLC buyer had also signed up for an Apex!…]

So John is your LS4 Apex going to be NA or FI? Curious what your performance goals for your setup??

 

[John Ross]

So John is your LS4 Apex going to be NA or FI? Curious what your performance goals for your setup??

NA or FI? I interpret this as Naturally Aspirated or Fuel Injected? In which case, the answer is "Yes."

If FI means Forced Induction, no. No blowers or turbos on this car. the 4L65 trans is a known weak link in the LS4 world. Triple Edge Performance in Ft. Wayne, IN specializes is these units and has been making them live in applications with over 500 WHP.

I am going to get rid of the DoD stuff. Beyond that, I may have Thomson port the heads, put in better valve springs, and use a bigger cam, maybe the LS7 one. I'd like to see 450 HP at the flywheel. I don't intend to mess with the bottom end.

JR

 

[Leon R]

I'd like to see 450 HP at the flywheel. I don't intend to mess with the bottom end.

I know that it can be difficult to believe, if you are not used to sport compact tuning scene, but if you are “only” looking for 450hp, you can get it from a STOCK 4G63 block/head! Things only start to get difficult with 4G63 once get above 700-800hp mark. Until then, you can make cheap, reliable pump gas power without terrible boost lag.

 

[Justin Hutson]

I know that it can be difficult to believe, if you are not used to sport compact tuning scene, but if you are “only” looking for 450hp, you can get it from a STOCK 4G63 block/head! Things only start to get difficult with 4G63 once get above 700-800hp mark. Until then, you can make cheap, reliable pump gas power without terrible boost lag.

Yep I'll vouch, a buddy of mine has a gen1 talon and runs high 9s to low 10s with like 6k total invested into the car besides the purchase price.. Super strong with the right combo of parts and will make big power.. Beauty of an inline setup!

 

[Scott Davis]

Yep I meant forced induction.

All things being equal, I'd definitely prefer 450 hp from a NA V8 over a turbo inline 4. No question. That being said, I also don't want an automatic (trip or not). Throw in a much cheaper price tag across the board and the ease/volume of information (not sure we talked about ECU compatibility yet either). I'll take the turbo 4 instead!! Just my preference taken as a whole.

 

[Leon R]

not sure we talked about ECU compatibility yet either

I have brought-up popular 4G63 engine management options in the past, you can ether:

1 Use late model (98/99) re-flushable ECU (cheap, but awkward, cumbersome and not user-friendly)
2 Use EVO8 re-flushable ECU (requires some PIN/connector changes, basically same as option 1, but with a faster processor)
3 Use ECM Link ECMTuning, Inc. (runs off 95 turbo ECU, the only year which has an eprom ECU).
4 Numberous standalone ECUs.


ECM Link is one of the easiest to use and effective tuning tools out there! It is so good, that people adapt it into other cars! I have personally seen EVO’s, Miata’s and 240SX Nissan’s converted to 95 DSM ECU just so that they can use ECM Link! It is THAT good!

ECM Link alone, should be enough of a reason to stick with 4G63

 

[Justin Hutson]

Hey Fran any updates on what is going on in your mind when it comes to this kit!!?!????

 

[Greg Wolfe]

Hey Fran any updates on what is going on in your mind when it comes to this kit!!?!????

I am hoping for a state of the union address soon as well. It seems the general consensus is we want the kit out in one form or another. Whatever works for RCR.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[doug blowers]

Maybe an update with pictures? If there are three bodies already made and it sounds like two kits already purchased. Let hear and see some of the details.
I need to know how much I have to save $$ and how much I need to spoil the wife to purchase this kit. (It’s a delicate balancing act)

 

[Scott Davis]

I have brought-up popular 4G63 engine management options in the past

I was referring to the ECU compatibility when putting in the LS4. Maybe there are no issues here??

I would be using ECM link or AES (if there's room in the budget) with the 4G63.

 

[Leon R]

I was referring to the ECU compatibility when putting in the LS4. Maybe there are no issues here??

I would be using ECM link or AES (if there's room in the budget) with the 4G63.

In addition to running the engine, stock ECU does things like:

- Turns on a fuel pump
- Turns on a radiator fan
- Controls AC
- Give signal to the tach
- Gives you OBD2 and Check Engine

With a Chevy engine, you would have to use a GM ECU to perform those functions. So you would no longer use a DSM ECU.

AES? Did you mean AEM EMS?

 

[Scott Davis]

With a Chevy engine, you would have to use a GM ECU to perform those functions. So you would no longer use a DSM ECU.

No Thanks!!...but for some, I'm sure this is part of the appeal of the challenge of a kit.

AES? Did you mean AEM EMS?

Opps...Yes. I would consider having the tuning done on the AEM at Road Race Engineering nearby. I've heard its more challenging but for someone who knows what they are doing - worth it.

Not sure how well ECM link/flash handles meth injection. Like whether it can spray progressive. Not a deal breaker if not.