Hewland LG600 in AMGT-2

Russ Noble · Aug 12, 2009

Was AMGT-2 ever fitted with an LG600?

This has interested me ever since I read in John Allen's book that it was. This is a question that has been pursued in several threads here and many people involved with this car have opined that they did not think that was so.

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cushmancomp said:
I spent alot of time going over this car for Jack and maing him a list of parts that were not correct on this car from its last 2 owners and took alot of pics. I saw no signs of a hewland ever being in the car from any modifications. I thought hewlands were left hand shift and I am sure if thats the case the shift linkage would have needed alot of help getting there. I know that when Stauffer owned it there was never a sign of anything like that. I also know old race car mechanics get older stories confused alot. I would sooner think the hewland was in Allan Manns lola or some other car.

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cushmancomp said:
Fitting a hewland in a RF could be vastly different than fitting it in an original GT40. The shift linkage would not mate up to a ZF without modifaction. The crossmember would not bolt up. The drive axles would have to be compltely remodeled. Lower bellhousing mounts would not match up. Speedo and or original oil pumps would have to be scrapped. Jeff Sime worked on this car at Stauffers and he never saw any evidence of a non stock transaxle in it and Jack was a historian of this car after he got it and he never heard anything about a hewland. It could have been done for a short period of time but I can't see any evidence of it.

The ZFs were pretty reliable by this time and went on to win a couple more 24 hour races in 68-69. I seem to remember hewlands being heavier than a ZF and I do know Paul Hawkins was into weight savings as much as Allan Mann was those days.

Jay is wrong about the weight and gearchange of the Hewland, and maybe many other things, however the late Jack Launtz who had owned the car for twenty odd years had this to say:-

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Driven said:
Hi guys:
Although I seldom post, I do keep an eye on this website: I'm still around, and so is AM2 which has been with me for over 20 years now.
I don't recall ever hearing or reading that Paul ever fitted a Hewland. It has, and so far as I know, has always had a standard ZF.

Jack

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Unfortunately John Allen couldn't recall the source of his information, so the weight of opinion appeared to be against the fitment.

Then this appeared

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huntsen said:
AMGT-2 left hand drive???????????
See the article in Fortyfication 80 by Paul Hawkins' mechanic at the time.

I thought this could be interesting and could possibly shed some light on the subject but I have only now managed to lay my hands on a copy. For the benefit of those not privy to this, it is a series of articles over several issues by Bernie Mylon who was indeed the mechanic for AMGT-2 when it was campaigned by Paul Hawkins and his services were also retained by Jose-Maria Juncadella when he purchased the car from Hawkins. So, Bernie was/is an Australian and apart from a short stint working for Lola during the change of ownership period, only worked on AMGT-2 for the full tenure of his time in the UK, Europe and South America. I make this point to counter Jays assertions:-

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cushmancomp said:
I also know old race car mechanics get older stories confused alot. I would sooner think the hewland was in Allan Manns lola or some other car.

So Bernie described his first impressions of the car as he started work just a matter of days after arriving in the UK."The Hewland gearbox was amazing, pull the back off the box and change any ratio you wanted. We had a box full to cover all the circuits plus a chart to relate revs to the ratios" There is also a photo of him with the rear housing off the trans changing the ratios.

He also relates the following anecdote with the mechanic for David Pipers Lola who "asked for some gearbox oil because they were having a lot of gearbox trouble and had run out. I had plenty so I told him to take what he wanted. He told me it was the wrong oil. I said we were both using Hewlands and mine wasn't breaking so why not try it. Problem fixed."

Later on with Juncadella in Argentina with regard to the clutch he states "Paul had made an alteration to the plate so if I ordered a part from Hewland I was not aware that it was incorrect until I matched it up"

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superflyte said:
A side note: As I understand it, AMGT2 (Hewland transmission) suffered gearbox failures in it's last two races of the 1970 sportscar championship season. Now the details on those problems would make for interesting reading. I'll try an find out what happened!

superflyte said:
Hi Jack,

Many thanks for the reply. It must have been the ZF that caused some issues in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Buenos Aires</st1lace></st1:city> in 1970.

I'll let my friend know where the car is now, he has some excellent period pictures of himself in the car at full flight during the 1969 Sportscar Championship. We have spoken at length about the car, but we didn't know where it ended up.

But it was indeed the Hewland that destroyed itself as Bernie relates "Not long after we started practice the cars diff housing split". Obviously it needed to be repaired/replaced. "The only way this was going to happen was for Hewland to send a new assembly and this wouldn't happen without money"

Shortly after this Bernie returned to Australia. And presumably the ZF was fitted as a replacement some time after that.

In my opinion that demonstrates fairly conclusively that AMGT-2 was definitely fitted with the LG600 from before Bernies arrival in mid '68 through to the Temporado Series in Jan 1970. I believe this makes AMGT-2 unique in its choice of gearbox amongst original GT40's

I have posted this because it is a significant but little known fact and it has been the cause of some discussion and dispute on this board. I felt that the Hewland fitment shouldn't become buried in obscurity as it is quite a relevant piece of information about that car.

Bernie Mylon by all accounts has relatively recently imported a GTD from the UK into Victoria. Has anyone in Aussie come across him?

And what of AMGT-2? Jack Launtz has since died and the car was up for auction a short time ago. What was the outcome of that?

josvdp · Aug 12, 2009

Fantastic Homework & Summary

Russ Noble said:
And what of AMGT-2? Jack Launtz has since died and the car was up for auction a short time ago. What was the outcome of that?

Unsold at Mecum auction May 2009 - page 147 of Motorsport September 2009 shows it for sale at Aston Martin of New England although it is not on their website - prior to Mecum it was at Copley Motorcars

Keith1 · Aug 12, 2009

Nice bit of research Russ

I love this kind of detective work - somwhere buried in this computer is the complete history of Jim's (MKIV J6) research into his P3/P4 saga and it also makes fascinating reading...

I owned a Boss 429 Mustang raced by an English Group 6 (?) racer called Dennis Leech. There was some dispute about it's provenance when I sold it even though you don't see many Boss Mustangs with GT40 front hubs and spindles! :stunned:

So, I took a grinder to the front fender and stripped away some paint and there was Dennis's sponsorship regalia in all it's former glory buried under 2 further paint jobs. Job done...

Motto is, unless you need to save weight, never strip the paint right off your historic!

Neal · Aug 12, 2009

This car?

Motor Classic & Competition Corp.

jac mac · Aug 12, 2009

Neal said:
This car?

Motor Classic & Competition Corp.

Neal, thats a FE (427) & T44 transaxle in that car.

Russ I stumbled over reference to the Hewland recently also, cant remember for now though.

Russ Noble · Aug 12, 2009

Neal said:
This car?

Motor Classic & Competition Corp.

No, that's a 7 litre MK 2. AMGT-2 was a lightweight Mk1 mainly 302 but sometimes 351. Distinguished by its squashed in sides, no fibreglass sill panels, completely different (quite ugly really) rear clip.

1966 Ford GT40 MK I Coupe Alan Mann Lightweight AMGT40/2 Ex-Hawkins for sale by Mecum Auction

Edit: Jac Mac, you came across the FIA Homologation papers for the LG600 and sent them on to me. Remember....

Neal · Aug 12, 2009

Agreed Russ, don't like the rear clip.

Russ Noble · Aug 13, 2009

Neal said:
Agreed Russ, don't like the rear clip.

Yeah, and that angle shot is its best profile! Mind you I shouldn't have said ugly. Mean and purposeful would be a better description. I've got to admit that JWA did a better job aesthetically of covering the 14" rears.

Never the less I'd have to say, from my slightly biased Kiwi perspective, that AMGT-2 is the third most desirable GT40 after 1075 and 1046. No doubt others will have different pecking orders....

Iain Pretty · Aug 13, 2009

Hewland Transaxles

The cold hard facts are as follows:

The profile (Length) of the LG 600 is almost exactly the same as its successor the VGC, to make the VGC fit we have removed just about all offending "items" from the front of the engine and slid the whole assembly forewards by 75mm (3")
1. The water pump
2. The alternator
3. The Distributor

Having re locted these offending items we were able to move the engine / tranaxle assembly as far foreward as is practical to ease the problems created by the Hewland assembly. I assume that this was done on the original, because the alternative was to have a significant overhang outside the body work,

Iain

Russ Noble · Aug 13, 2009

Keith1 said:
Nice bit of research Russ

I love this kind of detective work - somwhere buried in this computer is the complete history of Jim's (MKIV J6) research into his P3/P4 saga and it also makes fascinating reading...

I owned a Boss 429 Mustang raced by an English Group 6 (?) racer called Dennis Leech. There was some dispute about it's provenance when I sold it even though you don't see many Boss Mustangs with GT40 front hubs and spindles! :stunned:

So, I took a grinder to the front fender and stripped away some paint and there was Dennis's sponsorship regalia in all it's former glory buried under 2 further paint jobs. Job done...

Motto is, unless you need to save weight, never strip the paint right off your historic!

Yeah, I enjoy putting two and two together and getting twenty-three

Keith, this is a bit off topic but it's my thread so I'm allowed.....:chug: It appears you've owned and raced a few interesting cars in your time..... How about writing a few articles about them and your experiences with them? You keep coming up with these thumbnail cameos in obscure posts and I'm sure they are just the tip of the iceberg. So how about sitting down in front of your keyboard and sharing them with us in greater detail?

Best wishes,

Russ

nota2266 · Aug 17, 2009

A refresh for Jac Mac's memory

Chris Melia · Aug 18, 2009

Hi Guys
My car will be fitted with the original AMGT/2 alloy bodywork from the Alan Mann days, Weslake engine and - 0 ZF transaxle, regarding the use of Hewland transaxles in the GT40 I have a Fav rear suspension drawing that mentions the Hewland transaxle on it?
Regards

Chris.

Chris Melia · Aug 18, 2009

Two b/w pics

JIMMYMAC · Aug 18, 2009

Iain Pretty said:
Hewland Transaxles

The cold hard facts are as follows:

The profile (Length) of the LG 600 is almost exactly the same as its successor the VGC, to make the VGC fit we have removed just about all offending "items" from the front of the engine and slid the whole assembly forewards by 75mm (3")
1. The water pump
2. The alternator
3. The Distributor

Having re locted these offending items we were able to move the engine / tranaxle assembly as far foreward as is practical to ease the problems created by the Hewland assembly. I assume that this was done on the original, because the alternative was to have a significant overhang outside the body work,

Iain

'Cold hard facts', based upon the assumption that your RF has the same engine bay dimensions as a true GT40.
Many prototypes had modified bulkheads to accomodate the 'offending items', so did you consider this ?

nota2266 · Aug 19, 2009

LG 600 which is the 5 speed has an overall length of approx 23.5 inches.
dont have a ZF 5DS to measure, however, the ZFQ is approx 23 inches overall (not incl pump) and I understand that the ZFQ is dimensionally very close to the ZF 5DS

The LG 600 has a right hand shift basically on top of the box

Russ Noble · Aug 19, 2009

Yes Trevor,

Jay has said there was no evidence of mods to fit the LG and I believe him. But I think he is wrong in his assumption that major mods would be required to do that.

Out of interest can anyone verify the weight of a ZF. I have searched extensively and seen posts saying 127 lbs, and 155 lbs, and Ross Nicol has told me his RBT 5 speed weighs about 200lbs. Maybe I mis-heard him. According to Hewlands the LG500 is 145lbs and the LG600 is 155. No doubt that's without bellhousing, but I bet they used to supply a magnesium bell housing that weighed five eighths of nine tenths of stuff all.....

JIMMYMAC · Aug 19, 2009

Russ,
The ZF /2 weighs 140lbs (64 kg).
The ZF /1 weighs 132lbs (60 kg).

Weights excluding oil and bell housing.

MK -IV J6 · Aug 19, 2009

Russ Noble said:
Yes Trevor,

Jay has said there was no evidence of mods to fit the LG and I believe him. But I think he is wrong in his assumption that major mods would be required to do that.

Out of interest can anyone verify the weight of a ZF. I have searched extensively and seen posts saying 127 lbs, and 155 lbs, and Ross Nicol has told me his RBT 5 speed weighs about 200lbs. Maybe I mis-heard him. According to Hewlands the LG500 is 145lbs and the LG600 is 155. No doubt that's without bellhousing, but I bet they used to supply a magnesium bell housing that weighed five eighths of nine tenths of stuff all.....

Correct. My Lola T-70 SL 71 32 originally had a LG 500 and we later fitted a ZF for easier street use without any problem or great modification.

nota2266 · Aug 20, 2009

LG 600 145 lbs, no oil, no bell housing, with clutch fork,bearing,slave cyl and push rod, mag case Holds 3 pints of 90/140 in final drive and 3 pints in gearbox (imperial pints)

Hewland LG600 in AMGT-2

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