Southern GT #28

[Hamish]

Hi all.

This is my first post on my build log. I'm sure like many others, I have read and re-read many forums over a prolonged period of time before finally taking the bullet and starting a project.

Last week I picked up a part built Southern GT40, where 80% of the panels were done, steering rack was in, a 302 had been stripped, and a UN1 reconditioned. Along with many other parts, I have gained a really big boost at the start of my journey to build this GT.

Background on me: I have no background in automotive or engineering, and only a small set of tools (seems to be growing daily at the moment). However, I am logical, analytical and hardworking. I want to keep a log of everything I do, as a detailed reference point for others and to make sure I don't muck up too much on the journey . Coming from a truly novice status, I hope to be able to document every ridiculously stupid question possible along the build, trying to highlight no assumptions. I hope in the future, this build log will help others of a similar background to me!

To all that read this log, I hope you find it useful.

Hamish

 

[Hamish]

Step one. Make some room in the garage. Sounds easier than it is. Lucky that I have a double garage, but like many, it's used to store many things for the family. However, after a month I managed to get one side of the garage free!

 

[Hamish]

Step 2 - Get to know some of the parts.

As I bought a part built car, my first challenge is to try to figure out what I have in all the boxes and bags.

The first thing I looked at was the engine. This was originally sourced back a few years ago through Southern GT, but the original purchaser didn't have much information about its origin.

Reading other websites I started looking for a code number within the casting. It took about 20 minutes to find it. It seems that different engines have them printed in different locations, in different formats. Eventually, I found mine, on the underneath of the block, in this format:

From reading other websites, the important piece is the E7TE, which I believe means that this 1987 (E7) Windsor engine, originally built for a truck (T). Further reading of forums indicate that even though it has a T, it may not have been used in a truck, as there can be a disparity between what the engine was originally built for and what vehicle it actually ends up in. Further reading indicated that E7TE engines can be found in '87 Mustangs.

The CA on the block indicates made in California. I have no idea what the 33, or the sideways S stands for.

I also found on the block in the riser valley, YYY. After doing some digging I believe this shows that the engine was a production made engine, in favour to an engine that has an XXX on it, which I believe highlights it was a test engine.

(Please remember - I am a novice on this topic, so the details I have above is what I found by researching on the Internet - so could be inaccurate!)

For now though, the block sits in its stand, being ignored!

 

[Mike Pass]

Welcome Hamish. You have made a good start. Where are you based? I have sent you a message via this forum. See top right of this page for messages.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Hamish]

Looking at the number of rivets still needing to be done, I have ordered a AT995 Air Compressor Powered Hydraulic Pot Pop Rivet Riveter Gun 3.2mm – 6.4mm and a SGS 24 Litre Direct Drive Air Compressor.

The previous owner has used Avundel Avinox BE61 stainless rivets, from Zygology. Wanting to keep the project consistent, I will continue using the same. They look to be 3.2 or 4mm - I need to measure them more accurately. One of the boxes says 4mm, but they look more like 3.2mm.

The previous owner seems to have done a neat job so far. I hope I can continue to the same standard.

 

[Hamish]

Welcome Hamish. You have made a good start. Where are you based? I have sent you a message via this forum. See top right of this page for messages.
Cheers
Mike

Up in Yorkshire. How about you?

 

[Mike Pass]

Oldham Lancashire. There is a group of the GT40 Enthusiasts Club in Yorkshire. Whereabouts are you in Yorkshire? It is quite a big place!
Cheers
Mike

 

[Hamish]

Whilst waiting for the rivet gun, I started to look at the front suspension, which is based on a ford granada.

The first obvious question I had was regarding when to use and when not to use washers with nuts. Sounds like such a stupid question, however the more I researched the question, the more I found others asking the same question. Maybe not such a stupid question then!

After asking numerous people, and Southern GT, I have concluded that I will always use standard washers with self locking nuts on everything. I have always thought it better to use a washer to help even the load and also reduce ware and erosion on parts. So, until someone gives me a logical answer not to, that is my approach.

The one consistent answer I did know was you need to use either self tightening nuts, or self tightening washers. Do not use both at the same time.

 

[Mike Pass]

I had an E7TE block. If you do the IVA test the emissions will be determined by the age of the block which is 1987. As you are in Yorkshire you are not too far from EDA in Castleford who have been building american V8 engines for many years. They did the prep and machining work on my E7TE block including notching for 347 crank etc.. They also prep some original race 289s as well as drag race motors. Good guys - know their stuff.

Engine Data Analysis "Specialist Engine Building & Tuning"

Cheers
Mike

 

[Brian Kissel]

Welcome Hamish. You couldn't have found a better place to document you build. You are very fortunate in that there are many owners / builders in the UK. I have never seen a Southern GT40 in person, they seem to be a very nice kit. I'll be following your build closely.
Congrats on your purchase.

Regards Brian

 

[Hamish]

Whilst waiting for the rivet gun, I started to look at the front suspension, which is based on a ford granada.

The first obvious question I had was regarding when to use and when not to use washers with nuts. Sounds like such a stupid question, however the more I researched the question, the more I found others asking the same question. Maybe not such a stupid question then!

After asking numerous people, and Southern GT, I have concluded that I will always use standard washers with self locking nuts on everything. I have always thought it better to use a washer to help even the load and also reduce ware and erosion on parts. So, until someone gives me a logical answer not to, that is my approach.

The one consistent answer I did know was you need to use either self tightening nuts, or self tightening washers. Do not use both at the same time.

As a result, I loosely bolted the upper and lower wishbone to the hub, using a washer and a self tightening nut.

As I could get easily to the front left suspension, I started there. The previous owner had already bolted the brake caliper to the hub, which from other people's photos, goes at the back of the hub. I bolted the upper wishbone on (seemed easy).

When it comes to the lower wishbone, be careful not to bolt on the symmetric looking lower wishbone, as that goes on the back suspension. Instead, you need the non-symmetric lower wishbone where the long arm points forward, so it connects to the chassis in the correct place.

 

[Mike Pass]

This build log of Martin's SGT No8 should help with lots of info and pics.

SouthernGT No8

Thought I would begin a thread to detail my building of a SouthernGT from Mick Sollis based near Southampton in the UK. Basically this has all come about after buying a GTD last June. After owning the car for some time I decided to start a slow upgrading to personalise the car as most owners do...

www.gt40s.com

Cheers
Mike

 

[Hamish]

My attention then turned to the other end of the wishbones. So, using the other set of front wishbones I thought I would loosely bolt them to the chassis, to see how that works.

Starting with the upper wishbone, I found myself asking some questions, of which after a conversation with Southern GT (great customer support - thanks guys), I got them answered.

Looking at other people photos I initially thought this would be a 5 minute job. I initially thought that each arm would bolt to the chassis with a bolt, two washers, as self tightening nut, and two 20mm spacers. However, this was not the case, as the symmetry of the upper wishbone is not symmetrical with where it bolts into the chassis. The stupid questions I had were:

1. The spacers have a flat end and a bezel end. I am assuming the bezel ends go against the ball joint of the wishbone, and the flat end against the chassis. Is that correct? Answer: Yes, this is correct.

2. I assume that the idea is that when the wishbone is connected there is no wiggle room, so all the spacers should hold the wishbone from moving horizontally. All spacers should be tight? Answer: Yes, this is correct. But, some wiggle room can exist, but when the nut is tightened it can squeeze everything up.

3. I assume that the centre of the ball joint should be in the centre of the chassis clamps. However, the width of the wishbone is different to the width between the chassis clamps. As a result, should it be centred on the front or back clamp? Answer: This doesn’t really matter, as there is enough adjustment in the suspension to move the wheel around after the wishbone is connected. It is suggest keeping the front arm with two 20mm spacers, and then customise the back arm spacers to fit. Also, it’s a good idea to make sure both left and right suspensions use the same configuration.

As a result, this is what I ended up with, to make sure everything was tight:

 

[Hamish]

This build log of Martin's SGT No8 should help with lots of info and pics.

SouthernGT No8

Thought I would begin a thread to detail my building of a SouthernGT from Mick Sollis based near Southampton in the UK. Basically this has all come about after buying a GTD last June. After owning the car for some time I decided to start a slow upgrading to personalise the car as most owners do...

www.gt40s.com

Cheers
Mike

Thanks Mike. Will review. H

 

[Hamish]

Next, the lower wishbone.

I need to do some modifications to the panelling. The holes currently are too tight, as you can't see the bolt had or nut through the current holes.

In favour of taking out rivets, I am going to use a small cutter to extend the holes in the coming few days. I can then see what spacers I need for the lower arm.

 

[MICK.(southerngt)]

Next, the lower wishbone.

I need to do some modifications to the panelling. The holes currently are too tight, as you can't see the bolt had or nut through the current holes.

In favour of taking out rivets, I am going to use a small cutter to extend the holes in the coming few days. I can then see what spacers I need for the lower arm.

View attachment 112285View attachment 112286

 

[MICK.(southerngt)]

Hi Hamish the previous owner has fitted that small cover panel with removable screws so you can remove it and see brackets behind.
Regards mick

 

[Paulbav]

My attention then turned to the other end of the wishbones. So, using the other set of front wishbones I thought I would loosely bolt them to the chassis, to see how that works.

Starting with the upper wishbone, I found myself asking some questions, of which after a conversation with Southern GT (great customer support - thanks guys), I got them answered.

Looking at other people photos I initially thought this would be a 5 minute job. I initially thought that each arm would bolt to the chassis with a bolt, two washers, as self tightening nut, and two 20mm spacers. However, this was not the case, as the symmetry of the upper wishbone is not symmetrical with where it bolts into the chassis. The stupid questions I had were:

1. The spacers have a flat end and a bezel end. I am assuming the bezel ends go against the ball joint of the wishbone, and the flat end against the chassis. Is that correct? Answer: Yes, this is correct.

View attachment 112280

2. I assume that the idea is that when the wishbone is connected there is no wiggle room, so all the spacers should hold the wishbone from moving horizontally. All spacers should be tight? Answer: Yes, this is correct. But, some wiggle room can exist, but when the nut is tightened it can squeeze everything up.

3. I assume that the centre of the ball joint should be in the centre of the chassis clamps. However, the width of the wishbone is different to the width between the chassis clamps. As a result, should it be centred on the front or back clamp? Answer: This doesn’t really matter, as there is enough adjustment in the suspension to move the wheel around after the wishbone is connected. It is suggest keeping the front arm with two 20mm spacers, and then customise the back arm spacers to fit. Also, it’s a good idea to make sure both left and right suspensions use the same configuration.

As a result, this is what I ended up with, to make sure everything was tight:

View attachment 112281

View attachment 112283

View attachment 112282

View attachment 112284

Wow lots of effort into that diagram...

Essentially yes sounds like what I did, nice and snug, just adjusted the spacers with washers or clearancing them as required, don’t forget they are hand made chassis and there will be variances between each of them.
A good pull on the ratchet will ensure it i’ll be snug fit.

Those nuts (lack of protrusion) will fail IVA as they are so you may need to swap the bolts for longer or use half nuts.

regards

 

[Michel]

You have to pay attention when fitting those 20 mm or 18.5 mm and various flat washers that this will locate the wishbone on a certain place so the "Caster" angle will determined with
the fact the rod end is not on the middle of the bracket is really not that important ; whishbones have to be located forward or backward depending on the set up they give to the upright ( Mick Sollis know probablbly which ones are advisable on what side _ front or rear position whasher being ther eto finalise some small amount of degre and not to "squeeze" too much those U brakets

Concerning the bolts ; effectivly safety rules ( and IVA in england )command that protuding from the lock nut there will be minimum one and half thread
So your unique way to solve is to replace bolts ; when doing this try to choice bolt with as long as possible "bare" part with no thread , trying to have if possible no thread onto the braket ( sometime it's a tedious calculation to do and dictate to have longer bolt and cut the too long threaded end but
it will be then necessary to paint the end of the bolt preventing rust ; a plus will be to get AN bolts as they have from stock longer "bare" part and are also in diameter much more accurate than "on the shelf bolt"" .... but ... those AN bolts are for sure not cheap

Another point to pay attention is not to mix various nuts of the suspension ( as they can be with different thread - metric or Imperial , fine or coarse ) specially those nuts attached to spherical bearing ( when using metric ones) they are 12 or 14 mm by 150 which is different from the same bolt attach
to a 12 or 14 bolt that are 175 or 200 thread ; mixing those you can damage parts because when tightening them you think you are just going into the nylock part because it's hard to turn but in fact you are damaging the thread of the tapered end of the spherical bearing
Apologise to explain this if you are aware of (but as Confucius was telling 2 advises is betere than one LOL)

Hope al this will helps

 

[Hamish]

Hi Hamish the previous owner has fitted that small cover panel with removable screws so you can remove it and see brackets behind.
Regards mick

Thanks Mick.

I took a closer look. Amazing what you don't see when you look at something in the whole. I saw thousands of rivets all over the place, and didn't look properly. You are correct as always. Small allen key nuts hold the panel in place. No need to cut.