Caddy Coupe CTSV or something like that

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

It has been awhile since I've posted. I still lust after a GT40 but 1 1/2 years ago got side tracked with a future Detroit collectible. Even though GM won't release production numbers later than the 2009 CTS-V, past numbers were around 1900 with only 1 in 10 being the 6 speed manual. I bought new from the dealer and it gets driven about twice a month. Some insiders have hinted less than 200 coupes were built with the stick. I know the dealer wasn't having any luck moving the one stick on their lot till I bought it. I have used it on a couple of trips and if anyone wants a ride that is less knuckle dragging than the GT40 for trips or getting the groceries, the magnetic ride makes for impressive, flat cornering, and considering the weight, almost defies The Laws of Physics. Straight line acceleration with the 556 hp is decent considering the mass, but you guys need to visit your dealer for its cornering capabilities.

 

[Keith]

Re: Need some history on SPF MK II P 2176

Is it the product of one of GM's recent Chinese built joint ventures?

Each to their own, but I thought a couple of the recent Chinese models recent offerings looked half decent albeit plagiarised in part with European styling cues, but this (is it a Cadillac?) looks oddly oriental to me..

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Re: Need some history on SPF MK II P 2176

Cadillac CTS-V, basic Detroit luxo-rod. Supercharged, intercooled V8, with low production numbers. I remember the $1400 option of the Dodge Hemi back in the 60's and what numbers matching survivors of these cars run for now, so with less than 200 built for 2011 with the manual transmission, I figure it should also do quite good if kept bone stock and used lightly over the years.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Re: Need some history on SPF MK II P 2176

Cadillac CTS-V, basic Detroit luxo-rod. Supercharged, intercooled V8, with low production numbers. I remember the $1400 option of the Dodge Hemi back in the 60's and what numbers matching survivors of these cars run for now, so with less than 200 built for 2011 with the manual transmission, I figure it should also do quite good if kept bone stock and used lightly over the years.

Since this subject is already entirely and grossly off-topic I'm going to go ahead and say something completely honest but probably offensive: I think this mentality toward performance and collector vehicles absolutely sucks, and I sincerely hope it fails, which it almost always does. There are very very few mass-manufacturer street cars whose investment performance beats the stock market over any significant period of time, and that's fortunate for the rest of us who actually care about the quality of the machines themselves, rather than speculating. Go buy a tulip.

What I really wish is the moderators would delete or at least move the entire collection of Cadilla postings to somewhere else. Anywhere else. In the meantime I'm going to go take a shower to try to wash away my recollections of this discussion.

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Alan,

Sorry to offend you. I figured since I was the OP of this thread, which the members kindly answered my questions keeping me from buying a twisted frame 40, and I hadn't been on the forum for awhile, I would revive this thread. Nothing more than saying I'm still a fan of GT40 replicas but got side tracked.

As to future value of Detroit Iron, it is still dependent on many factors, numbers built, performance, rare option packages, and original survivor status. I've done this before and it does better than the stock market.

Me about 30 years ago.

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

I see you got your wish Alan. Enjoy your shower.

 

[Tom]

Bob,

My personal opinion is that you should enjoy that car. For a car to appreciate in value, it has to evoke some romantic attachment in the prospective buyer.

This works on old Detroit iron because these cars got kids and teenagers hot back in the 70s, and now these "kids" have the funds to chase their dream car.

I don't think the Caddy CTS, nice as it is, is going to elicit this kind of attachment. In fact, given the way today's youth responds to cars in general (viewing them more as an appliance), I have doubts any cars, beyond those with true historic/collectible value i.e old Ferraris, GT40s etc) are going to appreciate.

I own a '92 BMW M5 with 89K miles. Not more than 250 of these cars were hand built in that year. I'd be happy to get $15K for mine...

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Valid point Tom. I do drive and enjoy it, but unlike others on the V forum, I won't modify, drive a commute, or out in lousy weather with it. 20 years from now when there are more electric cars than ICE cars, we'll see if there is any value to keeping it as a pristine survivor.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

I don't think the Caddy CTS, nice as it is, is going to elicit this kind of attachment.

And even if it were to go the way of the Hemi 'Cuda, it would just have its value jacked up to the range where we real car guys can't afford to buy one, and the owners are so scared to scratch the things that they never get driver or seen.

So all in all it's a huge waste and a loss to everyone except for the one guy that owns it during the run-up in values. So it's pretty much the most Bernie Madoff-like thing a fake car guy can do. That's why I say "buy a tulip" (or some else none of us cares about). There are lots of other rare things you can speculate on rather than foul our nest.

Fortunately for me, in this particular case I have now and forever no interest in a tarted-up, warmed-over, fat-ass corvette-for-old-guys. But I do hate to see this mentality given any support because it sometimes does affect the value of cars I'm interested in.

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Alan,

Believe it or not, I share your views. I am a real car guy, not an investor. When I was younger and had less means, I was also upset that "money guys" who could care less about the cars themselves, were bidding them up at auctions and placing them out of my financial reach. If I wasn't a car guy, why would I be interested in a GT 40 replica? No appreciating investment in these cars, but what a hoot on track day. The replicas have better engines and tires than the originals, and are very capable. One of my rides that I have kept is my simple Track-T. Built for the purpose of getting to hang with the T-bucket crowd, but with an engine and manual transmission mounted so low in the frame rails, needed 3" removed from the oil pan to give 3 3/4" ground clearance. Lowering the CG is a quick and simple way to reduce moment-arm that causes leaning in the turns. My CG is about spindle height and for a corner on Hwy 49 that I test on, 1.03G, no lean or tire squeal.

 

[Jimmy P]

Bob, your recent purchase brings to mind another low-production caddy....the XLR. Why did you not go this route? The XLR is, as stated, a low production vehicle, big Northstar V8, unique styling and years under its belt.

No offense, but like others, few caddy's do a lot for me. Just not my cup of tea. Not saying its not a good car but I can think of other makes I'd own for the money that would have greater potential for value down the road. E Type Jags, a Maserati Bora, certain Aston Martins, etc.

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Jimmy,

I used to own a specialty auto transport business in SoCal. Due to this I had the chance to drive many desirable cars. Ferrari and cars like it as street driven cars I have no use for. They don't have much off-idle grunt, needing to be spun up to produce any usable power. On the other side of the coin, positive displacement blowers give great off-idle and are a joy to drive on the street. Ford GT, Mustang GT500, even the Lightning truck, all with positive displacement blowers, great grunt and a good top end also. The blown Jags are nice inside and out.

So you understand my leaning and why the CTS-V suited me. I wouldn't have bought it for just the power, until you drive with magnetic ride suspension, you are missing some impressive cornering that doesn't come with ride harshness.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Alan,

Believe it or not, I share your views. I am a real car guy, not an investor. When I was younger and had less means, I was also upset that "money guys" who could care less about the cars themselves, were bidding them up at auctions and placing them out of my financial reach. If I wasn't a car guy, why would I be interested in a GT 40 replica? No appreciating investment in these cars, but what a hoot on track day. The replicas have better engines and tires than the originals, and are very capable. One of my rides that I have kept is my simple Track-T. Built for the purpose of getting to hang with the T-bucket crowd, but with an engine and manual transmission mounted so low in the frame rails, needed 3" removed from the oil pan to give 3 3/4" ground clearance. Lowering the CG is a quick and simple way to reduce moment-arm that causes leaning in the turns. My CG is about spindle height and for a corner on Hwy 49 that I test on, 1.03G, no lean or tire squeal.

Well, to be honest, I remember that, but it kind wrecks my flaming rhetoric to acknowledge it.

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Well, to be honest, I remember that, but it kind wrecks my flaming rhetoric to acknowledge it.

That's OK, flame away. I'm wearing my nomex undies. lol

 

[Ron Earp]

For a car to appreciate in value, it has to evoke some romantic attachment in the prospective buyer.

This works on old Detroit iron because these cars got kids and teenagers hot back in the 70s, and now these "kids" have the funds to chase their dream car.

I don't think the Caddy CTS, nice as it is, is going to elicit this kind of attachment. In fact, given the way today's youth responds to cars in general (viewing them more as an appliance),

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

And I can tell you, from a lot of the 30/40 year old racers I interact with in the paddock and forums, they like what they grew up with. And believe it or not, these people love themselves some hot hatches (shitboxes), turbo 4WD cars, Japanese cars, and what not. I know, I know, you'll say "Ron Earp, you're full of shit". But I speak the truth. Post up a picture of a early 70s Celica, 90s Integra Hype Arrrghh, and these guys will be sporting wood.

Now, whether or not a hot hatch will be worth anything in 20 years is another question entirely. I don't think they will because times have changed and what is valuable has too. And fortunately, we still have kids who like themselves some Mustangs, Challengers, Camaros, etc. and yes, maybe even a CVST Caddy Thing.

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Ron,

Here in the US, 66% of all cars available in our country don't even offer a manual transmission, and of the 34% that do, production numbers favor the auto 30 to 1. The last time I was driving in Europe I'd guess 50% are sticks and every car I rented was a stick.

So, 20 years down the road, the masses won't even know or remember the Cadillac was available with a stick for a couple of years. It is this aspect that might make my V a future collectible. Even Jay Leno wrote in a Popular Mechanics article that he felt any of the CTS-V offerings (sedan, coupe, and wagon) equipped with the 556 hp engine and manual gear box was his bet for being a collectible. My plans was to buy a 2009 V at around 4 years of age, feeling that after that time it would have bottomed out and the value would start rising. I followed KBB for 8 quarters and in that time of just 2 years the depreciation stopped, so I figured to just buy a new one instead. At the deep discounted price from my local dealer who couldn't move the single stick they had, I hope to see a turnaround in maybe the next quarter. Have no idea how long it will take to rebound to the discounted retail I paid for it, but I do enjoy a new car without the new car depreciation.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Ya know regarding your comment re: "20 years from now when there are more electric cars than ICE cars...." have you considered investing instead in premium gasoline? Remember that in the CA Gold Rush it was the guys that sold to the miners that made the most money....

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Alan,

I'm on that front big time, but since I'm retired it is more for personal lifestyle than making a killing in the new lithium economy. I have 3 electric vehicles for highway use, and for R&R I've assembled components that have produced an electric kayak with a 60+ mile range per 2 hour charge. My largest project is a diesel-electric solar hybrid catamaran trawler that with an average of 5.25 hours of solar collection per day, will travel at 3.9 kt, 24/7, or 94 nm 24 hour daily runs on that stored solar energy in large lithium cells, no diesel used if you don't mind long passage times.

These are LiFePO4 single cell large format lithium batteries, and are the battery of the near future with breakthroughs in the labs as we type.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

Cool!!! One thing I've thought about doing with an SLC is building it as a turbine/electric hybrid (taking some inspiration from the Jaguar C-X75 from a few years ago, although for production they've bailed out on the turbines). Another high-power-density application I toyed with for a while is a very light-weight (eg carry-on) scooter. Sort of a smaller/simpler/cheaper answer to a Segway.

 

[Bob Lemke aka deckofficer]

Alan,

You gotta love the quietness of electric drive, not to mention all available torque at zero rpm. For larger boats, that low rpm torque makes tight maneuvering in port ops child's play. This is how peaceful it is in the kayak.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrOO1PyqmbA]MOV02923 - YouTube[/ame]